Democratic National Convention '08

[innerSpaceman]

Um, emphatically, NO


Born with a silver spoon in your mouth, anyone?



* * * * * *


I just got a chance to watch the Obama Speech this morning, and I find his delivery lackluster and his promises trite. I hate the way the laundry lists of presidential hopefuls go anyway, as if they are running for King who can then run the country by fiat.


In any case, blah, blah, blah, heard it all before. Carter, Clinton, all the Dems and their laundry lists of goodness that NEVER FUKING HAPPENS.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by Alex

Pick a definition of poverty, the question remains the same:

Is a person's existence in that category a sign of their moral failing to try hard enough?

In the field of human endeavors there are few if any absolutes. Is it a moral failing in all cases for all people? Of course not.

When you look at someone like Obama who as gone from food stamps to Major party presidential nominee what do you see? A lottery winner? Hapenstance? What is keeping scores of others from following in his path and raising themselves out of trying circumstances?

As Obama said last night. Government needs to do for the people that which they cannot do for themselves. It does not need to do that which people don't want to do for themselves.

[Alex]

When I look at Obama I see someone who is 70% a lottery winner and 30% self made.

When I look at myself (my starting position is probably worse than his), I see the same.

Regardless of how hard you try, huge amounts of luck are involved in success.

Now, I agree that not all of Obama's proposals are things I'd support. But you said that what we have now is sufficient for anybody to succeed.

Originally Posted by You

It some cases it takes hard work and sacrifice, but it is possible for anyone with the programs we have now.

So, does this mean that anybody who fails to achieve success has simply not tried hard enough or sacrificed enough? You, apparently, would say yes. Obama, apparently, would say no and that there is more government should be doing. He was also quite clear (whether he is right or wrong) in saying that the programs that exist now are not the same as they once were and have been undermined by recent political history.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I thought the speech was great, of course. He said a lot of things that needed saying.

I love that he set the bar high, ala Kennedy's moon landing challenge, by saying he'd challenge us to get off foreign oil dependency in 10 years. It was so amazing I rewound it and watched that line again.

I truly am proud of our country for getting Hillary Clinton so close and Barack the nomination. It's a different world than it was 4 years ago, no mistake.


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On another note...I have to say that this week of watching Dem speeches with new eyes and ears has hammered home why liberals and conservatives can easily dismiss each other's concepts and ideas. The words mean different things.

If you have never worked in education, you may have trouble understanding why teachers want higher salaries. If you have never relied on low paying, blue collar jobs as my father has his whole life, you may have trouble understanding why he wants to keep every dollar he earns. If you come from a military family you may have trouble understanding how someone can protest a war waged by our own country. If you grew up a vegetarian you may have trouble understanding how anyone would want to hunt for their food, as some families have done for generations.

It may sound obvious, but it's more true than we realize. The words mean different things. The speeches mean nothing to those that don't speak the language. Words like "deserve", "help", and "freedom" mean far different things.

The truth is that you can't have this large a landmass with this many people and not have large disparity in experience. Red and Blue is inevitable. It was the story of the Civil War, it was the story of America's independence.

We have to remember that we are two sides of the same coin. That without the workers, without the teachers, without the intellectuals, without the muscle, we are nothing. We must be able to keep what we earn to some degree and give it to each other to some degree. We need to think of ourselves and also think of our country. We need to disagree and still see that there is truth in what the other is saying.

Seriously, people. The conservatives have a point, the liberals have a point. Right now, I'd say it's pretty easy to see that we need to throw the current rascals out and go for some change. And, God/fate/Discordia willing, we will do a bit of good in this world.






I'm Cadaverous Pallor and I approved this message. Hell, I wrote it!

[innerSpaceman]

I approve Cadaverous Pallor's message, too ... and after that speech (er, post), she's got my vote!

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I love that he set the bar high, ala Kennedy's moon landing challenge, by saying he'd challenge us to get off foreign oil dependency in 10 years. It was so amazing I rewound it and watched that line again.

I loved that parallel, too. It would mean everything to me coming from Barack the President. It means zip to me coming from Barack the Candidate.

[Gemini Cricket]

I really like your post, CP. I really, really do.



With that being said, I worry that the Obama camp and many of his supporters are being overly optimistic at his chances of winning. McCain has been in Washington DC for as long as he has because he knows what it takes to thrive there. I don't think he'll be bashful at all in his campaign. There will be a late in the game card played by him or some Swift Boat-esque PAC that I feel Obama's camp will be unprepared for. That is what worries me. That is what causes me to watch his speech with a glaze over my eyes. It's a great speech, he's a great speaker but will he be able to overcome what will inevitably be thrown at him? I don't know.

I think what Obama and his supporters should be doing is looking at this whole thing as a huge challenge and not be as assured in themselves that winning is no problem. They need to look at this from the eyes of Karl Rove and think about what someone like him will be throwing at them and hitting back with the same intensity. That is the way to win.

[innerSpaceman]

More than that, I don't think they should be solely concerned with defense (though they had better be prepared for it). They need more than that. Most people don't know squat about Obama, too many people don't trust him because they don't know him or think he's a Muslim or won't vote for a black man.

He needs to get an effective message out there beyond the core Democrats, make people WANT to vote for HIM ... and not just rely on the winds of change to sweep him into office.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

I think what you mean is that there are very few jobs you would want to do that do not require a degree. There is no end of jobs that do not require a degree it's just that most of them either pay poorly or are unpleasant.

You have chosen to better yourself. To take a shot a landing a job that not only pays well but that you actually want to do. You're not waiting for some government handout to pave the way for you. You're stressing and suffering now for what you think is right in the future. You have a vision and you are working towards it. Even allowing for the fact that what you are studying is not related to IT the journey of getting your degree shows a prospective employer that you are willing to preserver. It sorts you out from the chaff. You rock girl.

While you may not see it now, looking for a job with once you have experience AND a nice fresh degree in your hand is actually a lot of fun.

Then once you have made it through, you have the job of your dreams and you are making a good living (if just), how much of that are you going to want to give back to the government so that they can allow individuals without your drive or ambition to enter college? How many of them will fall by the wayside when the figure out what a pain in the arse it is to actually work for a degree?

Frankly, I think it's complete BS that I need a degree to do my job, where if I was born 3 years earlier, or taken a slightly different path out of high school I wouldn't. I'm not stressing and suffering now so I can do what I think is right for the future. I am stressing and suffering now instead of doing it 5 years ago because I need that stupid fvcking piece of paper to get a job (even doing what I'm doing now) and not be overlooked for someone with a degree and no experience. It's complete BS. People with years of experience and no degree are now passed up for people with no experience and a degree.

I love to learn. I hate school. That's why I really didn't peruse college after high school, or one of the reasons why. I resent having very little free time because companies aren't willing to take experience anymore.

And in 20 years when everyone has a Masters degree I'll be forced to go back to school, like so many people who don't have a BA/BS degree but have 20+ years of experience are being forced to now.

When everyone has a degree, no one is special.

I think Europe and other countries have it right. You don't have to pursue a degree from a university to be successful. Trade school and other forms of higher learning are acceptable and not looked down upon there.

[Gemini Cricket]

Boy, I'll give the McCain camp this one: they sure did know how to wipe one of the best speeches ever delivered off of the face of the media planet.
Wow.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

I really like your post, CP. I really, really do.



With that being said, I worry that the Obama camp and many of his supporters are being overly optimistic at his chances of winning. McCain has been in Washington DC for as long as he has because he knows what it takes to thrive there. I don't think he'll be bashful at all in his campaign. There will be a late in the game card played by him or some Swift Boat-esque PAC that I feel Obama's camp will be unprepared for. That is what worries me. That is what causes me to watch his speech with a glaze over my eyes. It's a great speech, he's a great speaker but will he be able to overcome what will inevitably be thrown at him? I don't know.

I think what Obama and his supporters should be doing is looking at this whole thing as a huge challenge and not be as assured in themselves that winning is no problem. They need to look at this from the eyes of Karl Rove and think about what someone like him will be throwing at them and hitting back with the same intensity. That is the way to win.

There were some pretty intense words said about McCain by Obama in his speech.

I don't feel that this is a landslide, which is why I'm trying to raise money.

I know you're concerned, Brad, and so am I. If you're really worried, try to help, in any way you can. Talk to people. Make phone calls or write letters to the editor. Winning takes bravery in the face of adversity. We have to keep our eyes on the goal, not the ground.

Kerry, Dole, Dukakis, Mondale - none of them were confident in themselves and their message. They backed down from attacks. No one believed in them, because they didn't believe in themselves. If the Obama campaign didn't exude confidence to lead, no one would believe that they can lead. Don't mistake the confidence for surety that they will win.

Worrying about something won't change it. If there is hand wringing to be done because Obama doesn't win, I'll do it in November. Part of the power of this campaign is that we have been hopeless for so long - now is our chance to prove that America can right itself. We need to stand strong!

Be positive, Brad. Stop that naysaying this minute. Yes, We Can!