A Prop 8 challenge for swankers - Page 10

innerSpaceman · 10-22-2008, 09:58 PM

BTD, Constitutional amendments can be made by ballot initiative. What's at issue is whether there is a limit to what types of amendment. As I said, case law exists setting precedent that Constitutional rights cannot be eliminated by ballot measure vote. And just because there may (or may not) be conflicting case law does not make it a squishy legal argument, Kevy ... just an argument. The courts will decide.

BarTopDancer · 10-22-2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

BTD, Constitutional amendments can be made by ballot initiative. What's at issue is whether there is a limit to what types of amendment. As I said, case law exists setting precedent that Constitutional rights cannot be eliminated by ballot measure vote. And just because there may (or may not) be conflicting case law does not make it a squishy legal argument, Kevy ... just an argument. The courts will decide.

Thank you!

Morrigoon · 10-23-2008, 09:57 AM

The whole point of having a constitution is to prevent a simple majority from voting away the rights of a minority on a whim.

innerSpaceman · 10-23-2008, 10:26 AM

Exactly. Which is why I think the legal challenge to any Prop H8 passage will be on very firm ground.

Gemini Cricket · 10-23-2008, 10:31 AM

I know, it seems like you can find a poll somewhere, anywhere to support your take on something but this I found interesting:

Quote:

The proposed ban, known as Proposition 8, is opposed by 52 percent of those likely to vote, with 44 percent in favor, according to a poll by the Public Policy Institute of California. The ban is opposed by two-thirds of Democrats in a state where Senator Barack Obama holds a lead of 23 percentage points over Republican Challenger John McCain, the poll found.

Source
Honestly, I don't know what to believe. But here's to hoping...

Strangler Lewis · 10-23-2008, 10:46 AM

I think the difference is between whether you have an amendment to the constitution or a revision of the constitution. Revisions have to be submitted to the voters by the legislature. Amendments do not. There is certainly case law on what constitutes a revision, but I don't have it at the tip of my tongue.

Chernabog · 10-23-2008, 11:02 AM

One would hope that an amendment which takes away a Constitutionally-granted fundamental right of a minority (which normally must be looked at per the In Re Marriage cases under the strict scrutiny standard) would constitute a "revision".

Again... I need to review the case law and see what sorts of examples are out there, because I don't usually delve into that area.

Chernabog · 10-23-2008, 11:11 AM

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hommarl8.htm

^^ Some interesting stuff in there.

Just FYI, the last poll shows Prop 8 being defeated 52% to 44%. Great news, and new commercials with the (or a) Superintendent of public schools telling voters about the lies of the Yes on 8 people.

Last night I went to a house party that raised over $4000. (in the raffle I won a Barack Obama shirt, and BJ won a $375 photography session woot woot!). They said that there has been more money raised by the No on 8 people than on any other LGBT issue (I think they said in either CA history or US history). But of course we are being outspent by the Mormons. How they feel SO PASSIONATELY about taking away other people's rights is plain sick to me....

Please everyone, keep telling your friends about this!!

Ghoulish Delight · 10-23-2008, 11:15 AM

I wonder. If it does pass and it is upheld, I could certainly see the rise of another ballot prop, an amendment that would repeal the prop 8 amendment.

Not Afraid · 10-23-2008, 11:26 AM

I haven't found one person in my client base who is a Yes on 8 person. I love Long Beach.

10-22-2008, 09:58 PM	#91
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	BTD, Constitutional amendments can be made by ballot initiative. What's at issue is whether there is a limit to what types of amendment. As I said, case law exists setting precedent that Constitutional rights cannot be eliminated by ballot measure vote. And just because there may (or may not) be conflicting case law does not make it a squishy legal argument, Kevy ... just an argument. The courts will decide.
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10-23-2008, 09:57 AM	#93
Morrigoon I throw stones at houses Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Location: Location Posts: 9,534	The whole point of having a constitution is to prevent a simple majority from voting away the rights of a minority on a whim. __________________ http://bash.org/?top "It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." -- William Randolph Inge
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10-23-2008, 10:26 AM	#94
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Exactly. Which is why I think the legal challenge to any Prop H8 passage will be on very firm ground.
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10-23-2008, 10:46 AM	#96
Strangler Lewis Doing The Job Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: In a state Posts: 3,956	I think the difference is between whether you have an amendment to the constitution or a revision of the constitution. Revisions have to be submitted to the voters by the legislature. Amendments do not. There is certainly case law on what constitutes a revision, but I don't have it at the tip of my tongue. __________________ Live now-pay later. Diner's Club!
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10-23-2008, 11:02 AM	#97
Chernabog Biophage Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Moon Posts: 2,679	One would hope that an amendment which takes away a Constitutionally-granted fundamental right of a minority (which normally must be looked at per the In Re Marriage cases under the strict scrutiny standard) would constitute a "revision". Again... I need to review the case law and see what sorts of examples are out there, because I don't usually delve into that area. __________________ And they say back then our universe Was a coal black egg Until the god inside Burst out and from its shattered shell He made what became the world we know ~ Bjork (Cosmogony)
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10-23-2008, 11:11 AM	#98
Chernabog Biophage Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: The Moon Posts: 2,679	http://www.religioustolerance.org/hommarl8.htm ^^ Some interesting stuff in there. Just FYI, the last poll shows Prop 8 being defeated 52% to 44%. Great news, and new commercials with the (or a) Superintendent of public schools telling voters about the lies of the Yes on 8 people. Last night I went to a house party that raised over $4000. (in the raffle I won a Barack Obama shirt, and BJ won a $375 photography session woot woot!). They said that there has been more money raised by the No on 8 people than on any other LGBT issue (I think they said in either CA history or US history). But of course we are being outspent by the Mormons. How they feel SO PASSIONATELY about taking away other people's rights is plain sick to me.... Please everyone, keep telling your friends about this!! __________________ And they say back then our universe Was a coal black egg Until the god inside Burst out and from its shattered shell He made what became the world we know ~ Bjork (Cosmogony)
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10-23-2008, 11:15 AM	#99
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	I wonder. If it does pass and it is upheld, I could certainly see the rise of another ballot prop, an amendment that would repeal the prop 8 amendment. __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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10-23-2008, 11:26 AM	#100
Not Afraid HI! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 17,108	I haven't found one person in my client base who is a Yes on 8 person. I love Long Beach.
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