Is it bad that I agree with this?

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Have you always been so, GD? You've never succumbed to stupid, even dangerous things in order to look good to someone else or because it was the hip thing to do/be/wear?

Considering that my parents would not have bought it for me even if I wanted it, it was kind of a moot point growing up. But for the most part, no, I wasn't one to succomb to peer pressure. Sure I did the stupid thing here and there (I seem to recall one halloween that involved machettes, bb guns, and an m-80), but I never felt the need to do any of it. I wanted hypercolor shirts and Rebbok pumps, but I wasn't horribly devastated when I didn't get them.

[Gemini Cricket]

I was never one to succumb to peer pressure either in grade/high school. I had a Travis Bickle ('Taxi Driver') style of my own that others copied. Combat boots, camo pants... pretty out there for a Catholic school... but we did have free dress days... to their dismay.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

I'm pleased to see so many self-posessed and totally non-influenced people on these boards.

And that's the limiting factor in this discussion, isn't it? None of us are pathetic tools.

Otherwise, we wouldn't be here. Sure, we remember our childhoods, or can be reminded of them. Yes, we can hear about the unfortunates who are socialized zombies or SL's criminal clients. But we here (for the most part) have all developed our own personal styles, we are above-average in maturity and consciousness and awareness and willpower. We are swanky, for god's sake!


So we don't automatically go out and buy what's peddled to us on TV commercials, and we don't necessarily dress like the people we see in magazines. We may be aware of social norms like the proper facial expressions for listening to elevator muzak. But deeper down ... deeper than how we dress or groom ourselves or entertain ourselves ... how do we determine what we really want?

Here's where we maybe can empathize with social zombies who don't know how to dress themselves if they don't see it on TV. Because, as evolved and aware as we may be - - chances are we still determine what we want from what we see.




Just as an exercise ... take stock of the things you think you really want. And then determine if you want them because you have a unique, inner desire that stems from YOU - - or if you want them because it's something you've seen in the world (and if you hadn't seen it, you wouldn't have wanted it). You may be surprised at the results.


Humans covet. Even the swanky ones do.

[katiesue]

Like Wendy I also have a 10 year old girl. And it’s hard for them. It’s hard for me to find age appropriate clothing for her, especially as she’s tall so wears bigger sizes than other girls her age. I’ve heard her and her friends talking about who in their class is fat. She’s already mentioned her poky tummy. I really do think there is more pressure on them, and much earlier, then when we were kids.

I also overheard a conversation between two of her friends at choir one day. One girl claimed her clothes were from Ambercombie. The others started looking at her labels, and telling her in oh so snotty tones, that they were from WalMart. I sat there thinking these girls are 10 and they’re already ripping each other to shreds.

As a kid I always dressed oh so un-coolly. No way my mother was paying for anything cool. I spent half of 8th grade in high waters because I grew 3 inches and my mother decided I didn’t’ need new pants until I stopped growing. I couldn’t dress how I wanted until I started earning my own money and bought it all myself. And then it was what I thought was cool, which wasn’t usually what the rest of my peers thought was cool.


So far my 10 year old kind of goes along to the beat of her own drummer. She does like some of the stuff that’s trendy but she’ll do it her own way. And it doesn’t bother her if she’s different than a lot of her friends. She likes country music, which most of her friends don’t. And so far she’s ok with that. Jr. High and High School will be a different story.

[Alex]

I think kids always find something to use as a tool for harrassing and sectionalizing other kids.

The fact that perhaps clothing is more of an issue these days than when we were young (though when I was young I remember a lot of teasing over what people wore -- you did not want to be the kid wearing moon boots on a snowy day after about 1982) is because of the expansion of the middle class and the cheap availability of textile variety.

There is more variety and more money to buy that variety and suddenly fashion comes available as a tool for childhood drama. In the 1940s for the most part everybody wore very similar clothing unless they were on the wealthier side to afford more expensive fabrics.

On the other hand, however, I would say things were worse in this regard in the late '60s and early '70s when the way you dressed was essentially an identity card as to who you thought yourself to be.

Kids have always found ways to tease each other, establish hierarchy in comparison to each other. Weight and clothing may be more involved than in the past but that is just a symptom and not the cause.

And, just to get in trouble (and I've never seen the child of anybody here so it is completely abstract): Maybe your kid is fat. Maybe a little bit of teasing will help put them on a healthier path. You tease the kid who eats glue and eventually he stops eating the glue. I'm not saying teasing is a good thing but it isn't always a horrible thing, and is pretty much a constant across time, culture, and geography. It is just the same peer pressure towards societal norms that adults engage in but, as with everything else kids do, lacks in subtlety.

[Gemini Cricket]

Kids used to tease my pointy ears and call me Mr. Spock. I guess the healthy path was to just accept that I had pointy ears and move on. Some may have wanted plastic surgery. I don't know if teasing is good or bad...

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Just as an exercise ... take stock of the things you think you really want. And then determine if you want them because you have a unique, inner desire that stems from YOU - - or if you want them because it's something you've seen in the world (and if you hadn't seen it, you wouldn't have wanted it). You may be surprised at the results.


Humans covet. Even the swanky ones do.

Oh God yes! I love fashion. I think it is both a wonderful daily creative expression for the wearer and a fascinating social commentary. I love seeing what "new" combinations of shapes and fabrics each season will present. But, I take that information and edit it for my own taste. I don't choose to wear every style and shape that out there just because it is popular. It has to fit my own personal style. But, I AM influenced by the current style makers and I readily copy the shapes of contemporary styles (I also copy the shapes of vintage styles as well).

I'm not inheriently super creative. I do a lot of copying with everything "creative" I do. I thank GOD there are really creative individuals in the world that I can be influenced by.

[katiesue]

Every kid gets teased at some point for something, weight, nose, glasses, braces, bad haircut, freckles, height. What bothers me I guess is that instead of accepting that you are who you are, kids are going to more extremes to fit in. Like high schoolers getting plastic surgery because they think a smaller nose or bigger boobs will help them in life. Or that they need to fit into a size 2 and go to extremes to get there. Or working out for hours and hours to have a hard body, in gradeschool. Granted all of this has existed to some extent, but it does seem to be a much larger problem now than when I grew up.

What happened to Free to Be You and Me?

[Alex]

What happened to Free to Be You and Me?

What happened to parents being a moderating influence on the stupidity of youth? Almost everything you mention can only be done with the acquiescence of the parents.

Maybe that's why it is worse now (if it is). In the past you could tease but that wasn't going to get the kid a new wardrobe (or a nose job) and eventually most learned to ignore it. Now teasing actually works (since so many parents find it hard to say no to their children) and the smart child knows it pays to play up the drama of teasing.

[Gemini Cricket]

This is funny to think on but if I had myself adjusted each time something about me was teased in grade school, I'd be a guy with bleached skin, rounded ears, small nose, with a lip reduction who was also pretending to be straight... In short, I'd be Michael Jackson.