Nothing like proving the point-

[€uroMeinke]

Didn't we already establish in another thread that all religions - even those C'est la Vie Buhdists - were violent?

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

It is a simple fact that the holy source text for the religion explicitly lays out how non-believers are to be overran, oppressed, and forcibly converted.

The old OT, a font of beauty and wisdom, also runs red with blood, anger and genocidal intolerance.

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Certainly people of all faiths have found ways to use their faith in support of violence but some require more twisting than others (with Christianity, specifically, it tends to require going to the grumpy-God of the Old Testament rather than the specific teachings of "Jesus Christ."

The holy source text for the Christian religion is not just the teachings of Jesus Christ. It is in great measure Paul, which is all about conversion and, impliedly, how the unconverted are not worthy. It is also, ultimately, Revelations. While the Christian holy source text has an eschatological focus, it appears that the world has not ended, and that same Christian holy source text has provided many with ample inspiration and opportunity to play God.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

You have Christian radicals- and some people happily paint all Christians with that brush.

You have Muslim radicals- and people jump in to defend the group and insist that it's just a fringe.

Um... I find quite the opposite to be MUCH more prevalent.

Granted the handful of posts in this thread have been defending the Muslim faith. But far and wide you will find the faith under severe attack in the Western World while those same folks are much more apt to dismiss the Christian fringe as just individuals.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Strangler Lewis

It is in great measure Paul, which is all about conversion and, impliedly, how the unconverted are not worthy.

To the contrary.

The New Testament (Paul's writings specifically) is about how none are worthy. Paul called himself the least of all and the greatest of all sinners. Paul was despised by the religious establishment during his day because not only did he turn from being a member of that very leadership, he dared to extend the circle from Jews only to include gentiles.

I won't bore people here by referencing his writings, but I very much disagree with your assessment.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Christians (as much as people might deride them) do not rise up and burn people in effigy and demand their deaths...

Except for that pesky little Crusade thingy.

As a Pagan, I have a real hard time with that statement. Even to this day, Pagans are ostacized wholesale by a vast majority of Christians. There may not be actual burning at the stake going on, but the effects can be just as powerful.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Paul was despised by the religious establishment during his day...

Let us not forget John and George.

Though people mostly left Ringo alone.

[scaeagles]

Kevy, I'm going to argue against you, an unusual thing for me indeed.

I liken the comparison of Christianity today to the the crusades as something like being critical of white southerners today because there was slavery in the south 150 years ago. The southerners today don't own slaves. Christians today didn't go on crusades. This is about what is happening now in the current world climate.

As far as ostracism....I'll just have to take your word for it, as I'm not a Pagan so I would not have experienced it. I don't doubt it. Church would be great if it weren't for the people.

Edited to add: Christians often ostracize there own. I, sadly, have been on both sides of that, to my embarrassment and shame.

[€uroMeinke]

What's that "Harvest Crusade" thing - surely some infidels must be slayed?

[wendybeth]

Christians didn't bother with effigies- they char-broiled the actual people.


All religions, as our swanky leader pointed out, commit crimes against nature and humanity in the name of their god/s, goddesses and such. We can go around pointing fingers at everyone and get in a jab, but we are dealing with the here and now. I'm going to be honest- I am having a hard time trusting the Muslim faith to contain their (hopefully) 'fringe' element and I do fear that the hatred, mistrust and malice runs a bit deeper than the moderates would have us believe. I'm mildly literate in Islamic history and I have a fair idea of how and why things are so crazy right now, but the simple fact remains that the quote from the Pope regarding the Koranic command to slay the infidel was causing major problems six centuries ago, and continues to do so today. I fail to see how we can ever peacefully co-exist with such a mindset, particularily if we are to lead a New Testament type of life.

[€uroMeinke]

And that's why genocide will always be an option, it's the only sure way to wipe out a contrary belief/cultural claim. The trouble is having the stomach to complete the chore.