When "oops" just doesn't cut it. - Page 2

Motorboat Cruiser · 03-06-2005, 09:21 PM

Likewise, I'm thinking "fog of war" here. Mistakes are going to be made. I'm not comfortable with what occured but then again, I'm not comfortable with a lot that has occurred. We can't expect everyone to do their job perfectly and it's easy to assign blame after the fact, hindsite being 20/20 and all. Such a shame.

wendybeth · 03-06-2005, 09:26 PM

I agree, it is a shame. The woman is from a radical publication, and went into Iraq looking for a story. She then became the story, and came very close to dying a horrible death. It sounds like lots of money that will now be used to inflict more suffering and havoc was paid out, and a man has died. The more I read on this, the angrier I am at her. She's damned lucky to be alive.

Morrigoon · 03-06-2005, 11:56 PM

Hate to admit it, but I agree with our country's policy of not paying ransoms, etc, for hostages. It DOES encourage more hostage taking. Notice how many hostages have been from OTHER countries. Doesn't take that long to figure us out, eh? I mean, it would totally suck if you WERE the hostage not being negotiated for, but on the other hand, how many other people's lives were saved, who will never realize that they were saved, by not being taken hostages for that reason.

wendybeth · 03-07-2005, 12:09 AM

I felt so badly for the CARE director who was kidnapped and murdered. I don't feel the same way for this person. She went there with an agenda, got herself into trouble, and then had the good fortune to be rescued. I feel badly for the man who sacrificed his life for her, and for his family. The abductors have scored a double coup- they got a bunch of money, and the US got another political black eye. I truly feel that she is more responsible for this man's death than anyone else.

lizziebith · 03-07-2005, 12:27 AM

Well, first I'd like to clarify my "need more 'splainin'" remark: it was obvious that this was going to become more than a tragedy: it would become a diplomatic hot potata. Second, I'd just like to say one word: Rashomon. None of us were there, and even the participants can't be blamed for having different interpretations of the event. Finally, yeah, my personal ideology tends to filter my assessment of these kinds of things, and there have been enough reports of our own guys being killed by friendly fire to think that maybe someone's finger went a little trigger-happy out there. My opinion is exactly (no more and no less) as "knee-jerk" as the opposition's is in blindly defending U.S. soldiers. After all, NONE of knows all the facts yet. Just wanted to acknowledge that.

Motorboat Cruiser · 03-07-2005, 12:27 AM

Lots of good points there, WB. I don't think anyone deserves to go through what she went through. That doesn't mean she didn't make unwise choices that put her in danger. I think there is plenty of blame to go around.

Jazzman · 03-07-2005, 02:30 AM

My sympathies rest with the family of the man who sacrificed his life for the reporter’s agenda, as well as with the soldiers involved in the shooting. I'm sure that it must have felt like the world fell onto their shoulders once they discovered what had happened, and I can only imagine the added burden which something such as this must bring to them. As if living and working in a foreign war zone wouldn't be bad enough already....

scaeagles · 03-07-2005, 09:57 AM

Apparently, the Italians didn't even tell US authorities that they had arranged for her to be released.

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050...0131-5769r.htm

How then could the US forces NOT shoot at the car speeding toward the checkpoint (assuming that it was)?

wendybeth · 03-07-2005, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizziebith

Well, first I'd like to clarify my "need more 'splainin'" remark: it was obvious that this was going to become more than a tragedy: it would become a diplomatic hot potata. Second, I'd just like to say one word: Rashomon. None of us were there, and even the participants can't be blamed for having different interpretations of the event. Finally, yeah, my personal ideology tends to filter my assessment of these kinds of things, and there have been enough reports of our own guys being killed by friendly fire to think that maybe someone's finger went a little trigger-happy out there. My opinion is exactly (no more and no less) as "knee-jerk" as the opposition's is in blindly defending U.S. soldiers. After all, NONE of knows all the facts yet. Just wanted to acknowledge that.

My first thoughts about this were the same as the OP's - I felt very badly for the journalist. As more information comes out, I find my sympathies shifting a bit. You're absolutely right, Lizzibith- none of us were there and the facts have yet to be determined. Still, I have a feeling that this may end up being a worse problem for the Italian goverment than ours.

BarTopDancer · 03-07-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Sigh. I have a feeling this will try and be pinned on the driver. They say he was going too fast and failed to slow for the checkpoint. My friend [who is over there] said "her driver was stupid".

The guy who died died protecting the freed hostage. He threw himself over her.

Sigh.

I'd like to change my stance. I think the driver was at fault, at the minimum the majority of the *blame* lays with him. It doesn't matter how she was released, he was barrling at a checkpoint where it has been pretty apparent that if you don't stop you will be shot at.

03-06-2005, 09:21 PM	#11
Motorboat Cruiser Cruiser of Motorboats Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: So Cal Posts: 3,665	Likewise, I'm thinking "fog of war" here. Mistakes are going to be made. I'm not comfortable with what occured but then again, I'm not comfortable with a lot that has occurred. We can't expect everyone to do their job perfectly and it's easy to assign blame after the fact, hindsite being 20/20 and all. Such a shame.
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03-06-2005, 09:26 PM	#12
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	I agree, it is a shame. The woman is from a radical publication, and went into Iraq looking for a story. She then became the story, and came very close to dying a horrible death. It sounds like lots of money that will now be used to inflict more suffering and havoc was paid out, and a man has died. The more I read on this, the angrier I am at her. She's damned lucky to be alive. __________________
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03-06-2005, 11:56 PM	#13
Morrigoon I throw stones at houses Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Location: Location Posts: 9,534	Hate to admit it, but I agree with our country's policy of not paying ransoms, etc, for hostages. It DOES encourage more hostage taking. Notice how many hostages have been from OTHER countries. Doesn't take that long to figure us out, eh? I mean, it would totally suck if you WERE the hostage not being negotiated for, but on the other hand, how many other people's lives were saved, who will never realize that they were saved, by not being taken hostages for that reason. __________________ http://bash.org/?top "It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." -- William Randolph Inge
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03-07-2005, 12:09 AM	#14
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	I felt so badly for the CARE director who was kidnapped and murdered. I don't feel the same way for this person. She went there with an agenda, got herself into trouble, and then had the good fortune to be rescued. I feel badly for the man who sacrificed his life for her, and for his family. The abductors have scored a double coup- they got a bunch of money, and the US got another political black eye. I truly feel that she is more responsible for this man's death than anyone else. __________________
	Submit to Quotes

03-07-2005, 12:27 AM	#15
lizziebith Wishing these titles could be longe Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Pearblossom CA Posts: 984	Well, first I'd like to clarify my "need more 'splainin'" remark: it was obvious that this was going to become more than a tragedy: it would become a diplomatic hot potata. Second, I'd just like to say one word: Rashomon. None of us were there, and even the participants can't be blamed for having different interpretations of the event. Finally, yeah, my personal ideology tends to filter my assessment of these kinds of things, and there have been enough reports of our own guys being killed by friendly fire to think that maybe someone's finger went a little trigger-happy out there. My opinion is exactly (no more and no less) as "knee-jerk" as the opposition's is in blindly defending U.S. soldiers. After all, NONE of knows all the facts yet. Just wanted to acknowledge that. __________________ $ DO \|\| !$ DO ; TRY TRY: COMMAND NOT FOUND
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03-07-2005, 02:30 AM	#17
Jazzman Sax God Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Portland's Tijuana Posts: 510	My sympathies rest with the family of the man who sacrificed his life for the reporter’s agenda, as well as with the soldiers involved in the shooting. I'm sure that it must have felt like the world fell onto their shoulders once they discovered what had happened, and I can only imagine the added burden which something such as this must bring to them. As if living and working in a foreign war zone wouldn't be bad enough already....
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03-07-2005, 09:57 AM	#18
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Apparently, the Italians didn't even tell US authorities that they had arranged for her to be released. http://www.washtimes.com/world/20050...0131-5769r.htm How then could the US forces NOT shoot at the car speeding toward the checkpoint (assuming that it was)?
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