Would You Shoot 2 Men to Protect Your Neighbor's Property? - Page 4

LSPoorEeyorick · 07-02-2008, 01:05 PM

I don't know if I feel sympathy, exactly. But it's a ****ty life for many, and this is a particularly ****ty financial time. Without sufficient financial or educational resources, and without people around you teaching and demonstrating good ethics, I can imagine it would be pretty difficult to resist the urge to steal.

Peaceful resistance might lead to your death, but on the other hand, aggressive resistance like his might also. I wish everyone had the impulse to give their mugger their coat, because I'd much rather try to end up with both people alive instead of one of the parties dead. Much like Chekhov's Gun rule, introduce one in the first act and somebody's going to get shot.

He shot them in the back. They were running away. I just don't think property or objects are worth a human life, even if that human is stealing it.

Alex · 07-02-2008, 01:05 PM

Horn has not been acquitted of anything. A grand jury refused to issue an indictment. I believe that means the local prosecutors are able to represent to another grand jury if they think they can get another decision.

That said, since grand juries are strongly tilted in the favor of the prosecution it isn't a good sign.

As said before I am going completely based on a single news story, and that generally isn't a great way to become informed on events. So I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that there is information that makes this more justified than the story otherwise indicates.

Kevy Baby · 07-02-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

There are a couple of things that bug me about the whole thing

I agree with your concerns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

I don't think I could shoot to kill anyone unless me, my family or friends were in danger. Even then, my instinct would be to wound. But with all the adrenaline flowing, who knows.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowflake

I still think if you are popping someone who is running away, aim for the knee.

Unless one is an experienced marksman, with a bullet (not a shotgun), as well as many other variables being perfect, the chances of someone just wounding someone running is highly unlikely.

Strangler Lewis · 07-02-2008, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

If people knew they were robbing the home of a gun owner, would they even bother? I do wonder.

There is no shortage of stolen guns in this country, and there's certainly a market for them. Many stolen guns are taken from private owners.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812 · 07-02-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I don't know if I feel sympathy, exactly...

He shot them in the back. They were running away. I just don't think property or objects are worth a human life, even if that human is stealing it.

Nor do I. I think the shooter was guilty of a crime. But I don't value all human life equally, so I won't be crying into my hanky over these two. It's too bad that things like this happen, but the world is a beautiful place with a lot of bad it. A family bicycling in their neighborhood was mowed down and killed by a drunk driver in L.A. the other day (a la 21 Grams). As news stories go, that one pulls my heartstrings significantly more.

Hard times can explain certain actions, sure, but it shouldn't excuse it. There are plenty of people who have it rough and behave better. When everything falls to ****, some people are at their best and some are at their worst. It all comes down to the choices we make, and in this case three people chose poorly, and the legal system seems to have decided poorly.

LSPoorEeyorick · 07-02-2008, 02:57 PM

Aw, I hadn't heard about the family - how sad.

Indeed, poor decisions in all cases. I hold everyone in the situation accountable for their behavior, and I am not presuming they were, like Jean Valjean, stealing a loaf of bread to feed their children. I'm just trying to say that in the sliding scale of ethics, I have less of a problem with stealing than killing. Which, I think, is an obvious thing to say? But still deserves to be said.

But then, I think I'm really not particularly feeling sympathy for the killed as much as I am feeling disgusted by the killer (and by Texas in general for their approval of vigilante "justice" for trespassing cases. When we visited my brother while he lived outside of Houston, he advised use never to set foot on anyone else's property because of the trespassing rule, and I promptly decided I was never going to live in Texas.)

Eliza Hodgkins 1812 · 07-02-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

Aw, I hadn't heard about the family - how sad.

Indeed, poor decisions in all cases. I hold everyone in the situation accountable for their behavior, and I am not presuming they were, like Jean Valjean, stealing a loaf of bread to feed their children. I'm just trying to say that in the sliding scale of ethics, I have less of a problem with stealing than killing. Which, I think, is an obvious thing to say? But still deserves to be said.

But then, I think I'm really not particularly feeling sympathy for the killed as much as I am feeling disgusted by the killer (and by Texas in general for their approval of vigilante "justice" for trespassing cases. When we visited my brother while he lived outside of Houston, he advised use never to set foot on anyone else's property because of the trespassing rule, and I promptly decided I was never going to live in Texas.)

Family was hit by a drunk driver apparently, who fled from the scene and is still missing I think.

Yeah, maybe Texas should be its own country. Heh. There are certainly some who believe California should be its own country, and I recently read that it was, but only for a very brief time. Tis when the bear first appeared on the flag.

LOL at the Jean Valjean mention. It's true, hypocritical me is far more forgiving of fictional crimes. The tragedy of the dead burglars is that people can change (and live to sing about it...2 - 4 - 6 - 0 - 11111111111). But some some aren't as lucky as my brother, who was finally able to get his act togeher. Some are gunned down by vigilante Texans. And them's the breaks.

Bornieo: Fully Loaded · 07-02-2008, 03:27 PM

One things for sure, the two are not going to be robbing anyone else.

Capt Jack · 07-02-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

Yeah, maybe Texas should be its own country.

I think they'd like that a lot.

JWBear · 07-02-2008, 04:00 PM

They were once (just like California).

07-02-2008, 01:05 PM	#31
LSPoorEeyorick scribblin' Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: in the moment Posts: 3,872	I don't know if I feel sympathy, exactly. But it's a **ty life for many, and this is a particularly **ty financial time. Without sufficient financial or educational resources, and without people around you teaching and demonstrating good ethics, I can imagine it would be pretty difficult to resist the urge to steal. Peaceful resistance might lead to your death, but on the other hand, aggressive resistance like his might also. I wish everyone had the impulse to give their mugger their coat, because I'd much rather try to end up with both people alive instead of one of the parties dead. Much like Chekhov's Gun rule, introduce one in the first act and somebody's going to get shot. He shot them in the back. They were running away. I just don't think property or objects are worth a human life, even if that human is stealing it.
	Submit to Quotes

07-02-2008, 01:05 PM	#32
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Horn has not been acquitted of anything. A grand jury refused to issue an indictment. I believe that means the local prosecutors are able to represent to another grand jury if they think they can get another decision. That said, since grand juries are strongly tilted in the favor of the prosecution it isn't a good sign. As said before I am going completely based on a single news story, and that generally isn't a great way to become informed on events. So I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that there is information that makes this more justified than the story otherwise indicates.
	Submit to Quotes

07-02-2008, 02:57 PM	#36
LSPoorEeyorick scribblin' Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: in the moment Posts: 3,872	Aw, I hadn't heard about the family - how sad. Indeed, poor decisions in all cases. I hold everyone in the situation accountable for their behavior, and I am not presuming they were, like Jean Valjean, stealing a loaf of bread to feed their children. I'm just trying to say that in the sliding scale of ethics, I have less of a problem with stealing than killing. Which, I think, is an obvious thing to say? But still deserves to be said. But then, I think I'm really not particularly feeling sympathy for the killed as much as I am feeling disgusted by the killer (and by Texas in general for their approval of vigilante "justice" for trespassing cases. When we visited my brother while he lived outside of Houston, he advised use never to set foot on anyone else's property because of the trespassing rule, and I promptly decided I was never going to live in Texas.) Last edited by LSPoorEeyorick : 07-02-2008 at 03:09 PM.
	Submit to Quotes

07-02-2008, 03:27 PM	#38
Bornieo: Fully Loaded Lego Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Disneyland, USA Posts: 3,704	One things for sure, the two are not going to be robbing anyone else.
	Submit to Quotes

07-02-2008, 04:00 PM	#40
JWBear Worn Romantic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Long Beach California Posts: 8,435	They were once (just like California). __________________ Unrestrained frivolity will lead to the downfall of modern society.
	Submit to Quotes