Obama - Page 8

Alex · 07-24-2009, 02:30 PM

And yes, being a policeman sucks a lot of the time. And it is frequently dangerous. And they serve a vital public need. This same cop may have saved 43 lives last week and had a bad day this week. None of this is to say he is the worst cop in the world or even a bad one overall.

But he was still simply throwing his weight around inappropriately.

scaeagles · 07-24-2009, 02:30 PM

I am not a huge fan of Chris Rock, but once he said something to the effect of "If you don't want to get beat up by the cops, then do what they tell you!". The requests made by the officer were not in the least unreasonable. All he asked was for the man to calm down and stop shouting in public.

How many times should he have been asked to calm down? Perhaps his bahavior might have been construed as having the potential to incite violence. An older black man on his front porch yelling about being harrassed by a racist cop might very well incite violence.

innerSpaceman · 07-24-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex

The idea that it is ok to be arrested for simply yelling at a member of the police (and from your own front porch) is kind of scary.

Yeah, but that's why an earlier poster mentioned it was stupid to yell at a policeman. Because we all know by now chances are they won't give a fig about the law or whether an arrest will stand, and that Alex's well put "bow down or learn a lesson" is the defacto law of this land.

And guess what? "Chances Are" goes to "Practically Guaranteed" if you're a black man. So go on and tell me this wasn't racist.

Sorry, but EVERY TIME a black man is arrested for such weaksauce alpha cop bullsh!t, it's bloody well racist.

Gemini Cricket · 07-24-2009, 02:38 PM

Alex, I don't know. Not giving an officer your ID when asked and telling him "you don't know who you're messing with" is pretty uncooperative. Presenting an ID to an officer is standard for anyone who is stopped by a cop. "Yeah, I'll speak to your mama outside" to a request to step out to the porch is pretty belligerent. Disorderly conduct is disorderly conduct.

Alex · 07-24-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

How many times should he have been asked to calm down? Perhaps his bahavior might have been construed as having the potential to incite violence. An older black man on his front porch yelling about being harrassed by a racist cop might very well incite violence.

Yes, I'm sure the streets of Harvard's faculty housing would have burned, burned, burned.

Glad to see you're ok with police arresting you just because you've not been as polite as they'd like. And that doing so is simply completely rational behavior.

I agree with Chris Rock. If you don't to get arrested you should be prepared to all but tongue shine their shoes, regardless of why you're interacting with them (not because all cops are douches but because the ones who are don't wear signs). But that does not make it right for you to be arrested if you don't or smart for the police officers taking the gamble that they're doing it to someone lacking the connections to make something of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Sorry, but EVERY TIME a black man is arrested for such weaksauce alpha cop bullsh!t, it's bloody well racist.

Not necessarily. I knew plenty of white people who were arrested for talking back. Charges that were always dropped after being processed and allowing to stew for a while.

If there's obvious racism in this story it is that nobody would have cared if it weren't Louis Gates.

innerSpaceman · 07-24-2009, 02:44 PM

What is this about not giving the officer his I.D.? Isn't the gist of this story that he provided documentary evidence that he lived there? Kinda hard to do if that evidence, or some other, doesn't identity YOU.

So what gives? Does anybody really know what happened? Or are the details of this story changing constantly, or wildly different depending on who's giving them?

Alex · 07-24-2009, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Not giving an officer your ID when asked and telling him "you don't know who you're messing with" is pretty uncooperative. Presenting an ID to an officer is standard for anyone who is stopped by a cop. "Yeah, I'll speak to your mama outside" to a request to step out to the porch is pretty belligerent. Disorderly conduct is disorderly conduct.

Yes, and that type of "disorderly conduct" is not illegal. As said above an actual charge of disorderly conduct in Massachusetts means likely to incite violence or social interruption. Not simply being loud and calling someone names (especially when doing so on your own property).

And Gates did provide ID proving who he was. He simply refused to come out onto the porch when initially asked (which, by law, he was not required to do unless he was being arrested). Generally, unless you are being arrested you are not legally required to provide identification to the police, though not doing so when asked certainly will ramp of the chances of getting a bull**** arrest of this nature.

scaeagles · 07-24-2009, 02:48 PM

The police report says that he had to be asked several time to produce his ID and some form of evidence that he lived there and was met with resistence for quite some time. His ID may not have been sufficient enough (I really don't know) as the address he was living at may not have been the address on his ID.

I don't think it has much to do with how polite he was, Alex. He was just as beligerent in the house as he was outside and for a much longer period of time. Also, he was not arrested for failure to provide ID (not that you said he was, but I want that to be clear based on your posting above).

By the way, there was an African American officer there who supports the arrest 100%.

Alex · 07-24-2009, 02:52 PM

Again, are you ok with police arresting you simply because you're rude to them? If you're walking down the street and pass a policeman walking the other way and greet him with "Have a nice day Officer Racist ****tard <oink> <oink>" is that sufficient grounds for him to haul you in for being disorderly?

Nothing in any version of the events contests that Gates provided sufficient evidence that they were in his residence (though they both agreed he refused to leave the house to do so) so why bend over backwards trying to imagine otherwise?

Gemini Cricket · 07-24-2009, 04:10 PM

But it wasn't just that Gates was yelling at Crowley and nothing else happened. There are other factors involved. If I were the police officer, I would be wondering why someone who has apparently done nothing wrong is acting out so much. Also, after showing the ID the cop should have left IF there was nothing more to the situation. But Gates kept going, yelling etc which is still disturbing the peace, disorderly conduct. I can't imagine a cop leaving a situation where the person he has interacted with is still yelling and screaming. That is an unresolved situation, imho.

07-24-2009, 02:30 PM	#71
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	And yes, being a policeman sucks a lot of the time. And it is frequently dangerous. And they serve a vital public need. This same cop may have saved 43 lives last week and had a bad day this week. None of this is to say he is the worst cop in the world or even a bad one overall. But he was still simply throwing his weight around inappropriately.
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07-24-2009, 02:30 PM	#72
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I am not a huge fan of Chris Rock, but once he said something to the effect of "If you don't want to get beat up by the cops, then do what they tell you!". The requests made by the officer were not in the least unreasonable. All he asked was for the man to calm down and stop shouting in public. How many times should he have been asked to calm down? Perhaps his bahavior might have been construed as having the potential to incite violence. An older black man on his front porch yelling about being harrassed by a racist cop might very well incite violence.
	Submit to Quotes

07-24-2009, 02:38 PM	#74
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	Alex, I don't know. Not giving an officer your ID when asked and telling him "you don't know who you're messing with" is pretty uncooperative. Presenting an ID to an officer is standard for anyone who is stopped by a cop. "Yeah, I'll speak to your mama outside" to a request to step out to the porch is pretty belligerent. Disorderly conduct is disorderly conduct.
	Submit to Quotes

07-24-2009, 02:44 PM	#76
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	What is this about not giving the officer his I.D.? Isn't the gist of this story that he provided documentary evidence that he lived there? Kinda hard to do if that evidence, or some other, doesn't identity YOU. So what gives? Does anybody really know what happened? Or are the details of this story changing constantly, or wildly different depending on who's giving them?
	Submit to Quotes

07-24-2009, 02:48 PM	#78
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	The police report says that he had to be asked several time to produce his ID and some form of evidence that he lived there and was met with resistence for quite some time. His ID may not have been sufficient enough (I really don't know) as the address he was living at may not have been the address on his ID. I don't think it has much to do with how polite he was, Alex. He was just as beligerent in the house as he was outside and for a much longer period of time. Also, he was not arrested for failure to provide ID (not that you said he was, but I want that to be clear based on your posting above). By the way, there was an African American officer there who supports the arrest 100%.
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07-24-2009, 02:52 PM	#79
Alex . Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 13,354	Again, are you ok with police arresting you simply because you're rude to them? If you're walking down the street and pass a policeman walking the other way and greet him with "Have a nice day Officer Racist ****tard <oink> <oink>" is that sufficient grounds for him to haul you in for being disorderly? Nothing in any version of the events contests that Gates provided sufficient evidence that they were in his residence (though they both agreed he refused to leave the house to do so) so why bend over backwards trying to imagine otherwise?
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07-24-2009, 04:10 PM	#80
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	But it wasn't just that Gates was yelling at Crowley and nothing else happened. There are other factors involved. If I were the police officer, I would be wondering why someone who has apparently done nothing wrong is acting out so much. Also, after showing the ID the cop should have left IF there was nothing more to the situation. But Gates kept going, yelling etc which is still disturbing the peace, disorderly conduct. I can't imagine a cop leaving a situation where the person he has interacted with is still yelling and screaming. That is an unresolved situation, imho.
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