children on adult's shoulder for fireworks

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Hey, come on, I'm not trying to insult you. I'm sorry if it came out that way. I just want to know the logic behind it. I was (obviously) raised in a totally different environment and it's rather alien to me.

I'm definitely not going to say the lack of rules in my household was perfect parenting...I know my kids will have more rules than I did.

Sorry -- I've been the recipient of snide, underhanded, and all around unappreciated comments all week at work (is it really only Tuesday? Because it feels like an eternity) so it's a bit easier to jump to conclusions than usual.

My parents had lots of rules. Way too many rules, I think. But this particular instance wasn't one of them, in my opinion.

We did go to Disneyland twice when I was a kid. The first time I was pretty young and my brother was probably a toddler (we're three years apart) and I remember virtually nothing from that trip. I know it was fun, but really I was too young to care about any specifics. It's not like I wanted to see fireworks and they didn't let me. We just did things my parents considered age appropriate. We were of an age where the memories were more for my parents than us, KWIM? Seriously, do not picture deprived youngsters. If you want to feel sorry for our upbringing, bemoan our lack of Atari.

Now, when we went back a few years later, and both my brother and I were older, my parents went all out to give us a vacation to remember -- because we were old enough that we *would* remember. We stayed at the Disneyland Hotel (which was amazing because my dad barely tolerates vacations, let alone non-bargain chain hotels), watched the fireworks multiple times, and got to ride ALL the rides. My parents even ran with us to see Star Tours and Captain EO first thing in the morning (they were the brand new rides then) although I'm sure they couldn't have cared less about those attractions. My parents went on all the roller coasters with us, even though they hated some of them. And they went on multiple times. I have *lots* of memories of that trip -- fireworks, my mom screaming on Big Thunder, waiting on the hotel's monorail platform -- it was truly magical.

Which is all getting off topic in a big way. But in a way not. If we were at the very very very back of a crowd, my dad might have lifted me up. But we were taught to not inconvenience others. We didn't shout in restaurants, talk in movies, or block other people's fireworks views. And if we weren't of an age to accomplish those things successfully, they were saved for later. And we DID do them later, so we weren't really deprived of anything consequential.

But we did learn that we weren't "owed" anything, including a fireworks view.

Hey -- here's a thought to chew on -- I wonder if those parents who think their kids are entitled to views would have a problem with boyfriends who hoist up their petite girlfriends?

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

I’m going to disagree, even if I only have a crap argument based on how I feel. Though, first, I'd like to say that your post was really well written and thoughtful and very likely you've weighed in here far better than I'm about to.

If you're in a seated theater, and the people in the front decide to stand up at a concert, it kind of sucks. There are seats. They should sit so you can all sit and enjoy the music. But rather than start a war over it, the people in the back should stand, because shouting, "Sit down up front!" usually just pisses off the musician when he’s in the middle of a quiet piano ballad. Believe me, I experienced this first hand, and it sucked to have my one and only Nick Cave experience spoiled by a bunch of lazy asses sitting around me. If you can’t stand up for Nick Cave, who can you stand up for?! Not everyone can be happy.

I realize there are a lot of adults who love Disneyland. I love the park, too. But I still think of it first and foremost as a place for kids. I understand that putting a kid on someone's shoulders may block the view of other adults and kids, but I don't think they should make a park rule about it.

Also, I don't have kids, so I'm not just thinking about me and mine. It's not like kids at the park - or their parents - don't ever got on my nerves, because I do no have nerves of steel and can easily become annoyed. But at a place like Disneyland, I simply find something to distract me from my annoyance, because I do think it should be more about families and kids than me, a 28 year old girl. Now, is it cool for a kid to pull a temper tantrum and for the parents to turn a blind eye to their child's poor behavior? No. Is it cool to disregard the enjoyment of a 28 year old girl...woman...whatever...just because she's seemingly an adult? No. But I'm not sure what the solution is, so that's why I choose to move myself along to a place where there isn't a kid throwing a tantrum.

I like to imagine the Dad putting his son up on his shoulders is at the park once a year, or once every few years, or only there that one time. And since I live in L.A., I’m not gonna begrudge them that moment. There are a lot of annual pass holders here who can see the park numerous times a year. I realize some of you only get to come down once a year, as well, but you can always move, find a better spot. Be a grown up about it. I can’t understand staring daggers in the back of some dad or mom’s head over it.

I didn’t really get the stroller griping, either. Of course strollers and wheelchairs should be allowed in the park. Maybe some people abuse this; kid too old, injury faked, and maybe some people could be more careful when driving them around, but on the whole, they belong in the park, even if they can be an inconvenience to other park goers. Work around them. Happiest place on earth! Improvise. Leave them a wide berth.

Or, in the case of Kid on Shoulders, find another spot.

Because, like I said, the park might be for the kids in us all, but at its core I really think it’s a place for actual kids. Plus, those fireworks are in the sky. Sure, your view of a parade may be unfairly blocked, but if you’re having trouble seeing the sky where you are, I suggest finding higher ground.

I understand some arguments that the parents are only thinking of themselves and their own child’s happiness. But when I see a parent and kid in preparation stance for a chicken fight, I think of them and their happiness, too.

Perhaps it would be more polite for the parent to check his or her surroundings and then ask, “Hey, does anyone mind if little Suzie sits on my shoulders for a few minutes? She can’t see. I won’t keep her up there the entire time, but it would really mean a lot to us if she could get a clear view for a moment.” Yeah, catch you flies with a widdle bit of honey.

If the Dad were asking me, and he were Southern, he could toss in a little ‘Darlin’, and I’d probably offer to let them both perch atop my shoulders.

Man, I love it when Southerners say ‘Darlin’’.

[cstephens]

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

I like to imagine the Dad putting his son up on his shoulders is at the park once a year, or once every few years, or only there that one time.

I imagine that happens a lot, but then, I also consider the view of the people they're blocking. In the case of Sunday night, my husband and I were there with a friend, her daughter and her 6-year-old granddaughter. The daughter and granddaughter are from out of state. The daughter hasn't been to Disneyland in at least more than 7 years, and it was the granddaughter's first visit to Disneyland. So while I get that the Dad wants his son to see the fireworks well, I don't think that should be at the expense of my friend's 6-year-old granddaughter. If they had said something before hand, we could have asked them not to have the son hoisted up or maybe tried to arrange something else, though at that point, there wasn't really anywhere else for her to go where she'd be able to see. But, the dad didn't pick his son up until the lights went off. No warning.

[flippyshark]

Back when I used to work the Sorcery In The Sky fireworks at the Disney-MGM Studios, I sometimes had guests ask me to talk to other guests who had children on their shoulders, never an easy task. My approach, if it seemed like it would really be a problem, was to suggest that parents hold the children beside them, like a bag of groceries. My tag line was "If your kids eyes are level with your own, your kid can see just as well as you can." I'd say this suggestion was gladly accepted a little less than half the time. I tried to make this a general announcement to large groups of people, rather than targeting just a specific family. Sometimes, this at least sparked awareness or got guests to work things out amongst themselves.

Approaching just one particular dad with kid is almost certainly doomed to failure, because the parent is likely to feel singled out. (Because that is the case.) Such a person will almsot always point out that lots of others are doing it, so why don't I go talk to them.

My experience is that wherever big crowds of people gather to watch something, that is just the way of things. That's why I watch parades and fireworks from a distance. (Well, that and I just despise being in the middle of a crowd.)

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Prudence

But we were taught to not inconvenience others. We didn't shout in restaurants, talk in movies, or block other people's fireworks views. And if we weren't of an age to accomplish those things successfully, they were saved for later. And we DID do them later, so we weren't really deprived of anything consequential.

But we did learn that we weren't "owed" anything, including a fireworks view.

This kind of thing is a page right out of my parents' book. We may have been indulged in many ways, but never at the expense of strangers. We NEVER threw tantrums in public and weren't taken places that we couldn't handle. I guess it's just that my parents let us "handle" certain things earlier.

Sorry to have judged your parents so harshly....seems they did right by you. And just for the record, I believe my father wouldn't put us on his shoulders in front of others....I think. I know I wouldn't support that myself, and would go with the "grocery bag" that Flippyshark mentioned.

There, back on topic and everything.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by flippyshark

My approach, if it seemed like it would really be a problem, was to suggest that parents hold the children beside them, like a bag of groceries.

Here's the problem with that: kids can be freakin' heavy! I was at the park Sunday night with some freinds and their children (6, 4, and 7 months). The four-year-old is a moose: he weighs 60 pounds already!!! (And he isn't fat at all: he is SOLID.) While not officially, Susan and I are Aunt and Uncle to these kids, so the father and I took turns trying to hold the kids up on our sides. But at 60 pounds, there was no way I could hold that dead weight for very long (I am scared when he grows up: he is big AND smart ).

However, I would never had put these kids on my shoulder. But that is my personal choice. I would not begrudge someone putting their kid on their shoulders right in front of me. Granted, I wouldn't be real thrilled about it, but I would rather a child be happy. I can shift or make other adjustments.

Conversely, I always check behind me to see if there are small children who might not be able to see. I will move or squat or something to make sure they see.

[sleepyjeff]

This topic is on EVERY single Disney board I belong too..............Are the fireworks really that low that this is such a hot topic???

Will they still have this show a couple of years from now when the crowds(hopefully) watching the show diminish a little?

[CoasterMatt]

They could solve this problem by aiming some low level mortars at the kids mounted up on peoples shoulders...

That would take guest interaction to a new level

[Matterhorn Fan]

I never got to sit on my dad's shoulders, and I still have fond memories of Disneyland as a child.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

Are the fireworks really that low that this is such a hot topic???

Well, It's not so much that the fireworks are low, for the most part they aren't. Rather, there is a lot more to the show than just fireworks. The castle is an integral part of the show and if you can't see it, you are missing a lot.