The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Betty

But their children would not be citizens if they weren't born here, and they wouldn't have been born here had their parents not been here illegally.

That is correct. But it remains a fact that those children are US citizens as under current Constitutional law and are therefore entitled to the benefits.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Hey look. Some of the Tea Party's best friends are black

[Strangler Lewis]

You're degrading Hitler? Or Obama?

And once again, I am reminded of the Dave Chappelle sketch where he played a blind white supremacist who always appeared in a mask.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I had to leave the room today as my in-laws started talking about the new Arizona immigration law. "You know what precipitated that? There were murders. The illegals came over here and they [emphasis NOT mine] murdered people." Yeah. Illegal immigrants invented murder. Until they got here, murder didn't happen, did y'all know that?

[scaeagles]

Actually, there is a little bit of truth to that. The bill wasn't looking to pass, as it had been floating around in committee for a while, but a well known and well respected rancher on the AZ-Mexico border was murdered at his home, and while there have been no convictions, there is a suspect and evidence is pointing to someone involved with a human smuggling ring, and the police have some leads and a specific "person of interest" they are looking for.

So no, illegal immigrants did not invent murder. But this particular murder was the catalyst.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Please tell me you realize how ridiculously stupid it is to accept that as a valid justification for this law.

[JWBear]

Just because one man, who may or may not have been an illegal alien, commits murder does not mean all illegal aliens are murderers.

Scapegoating and demonizing a whole class of people whose only crime is to try and find a better life for themselves and their children is wrong.

[scaeagles]

Oh, absolutely. I was simply stating specifically to what your in-laws may have been referring.

I might also point out, JW, that you are also correct. Which is why I hate the whole tea-party-people-are-racists-and-irrational-yellers thing. Generalizations are always more acceptable to an individual when they happen to agree with the side that is making the generalizations.

I have no doubt that a HUGE majority of illegals are here in this country to work and make a better life for their families. Please don't assume that being anti-illegal means I think the system is great as it is. I'm all for some form of guest worker program, but an uncontrolled deluge of undocumented individuals is not acceptable to me on many fronts.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I have no doubt that a HUGE majority of illegals are here in this country to work and make a better life for their families. Please don't assume that being anti-illegal means I think the system is great as it is. I'm all for some form of guest worker program, but an uncontrolled deluge of undocumented individuals is not acceptable to me on many fronts.

Nor to me. However too many of the proposed solutions focus on punishing those already here rather than coming to a workable solution. Yes, the one over here have broken a law, but they've been able to do so because this country has willfully turned a blind eye and everyone knows it. Whether you think we should have been turning that blind eye or not doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of people who took advantage of that are NOT evil law breakers who deserve harsh punishment, they are people trying to earn a living for their family.

Do something to secure the border and ensure future legality of worker trying to cross the border for legitimate reasons. Don't punish people simply to prove a point.

[scaeagles]

Secure the border.....seems like such a simple concept. Political forces from Reagan to Clinton to Bush to Obama refuse to do it for whatever reason. My beloved Reagan gave amnesty to millions of illegals. Clinton did nothing. Bush could have had something done but did nothing.

With the agreement that most illegals are not evil lawbreakers who deserve harsh punishment, what then should be done? When amnesty was granted during the Reagan admin, the thought was "well, now that these people are legal we will REALLY control the border". All it did was encourage more to come. I cannot support amnesty.

Deportation is ridiculous. Fines? If they are here because they are poor and want to earn a living, how can they do that? Imprisonment? No. So what does one do to discourage illegals from coming here when there is no punishment that seems appropriate or effective?

I suppose those are meant as half way rhetorical. I have no answer except to stop them from coming in, but we still need to do something about the millions upon millions of people here illegally.