The Official Harry Potter thread (SPOILERS - NO tags) - Page 4

innerSpaceman · 07-29-2005, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I think Rowling is hiding all the good stuff to be played out in the final book. I could almost feel her holding back on this one.

Ahem, amid all the theories and mysteries and postulations, has anyone ever considered that this was a really crummy book?

Aside from the last hundred pages of breathless excitement and actual decent writing, the entire book was one big bothersome bore. Laboriously laying down mysteries that then go stubbornly unaddressed through chapter after chapter ... nothing happening other than a review of Voldemort's childhood ... waiting and awaiting and awaiting some more the thrilling climax, but offering the reader scant little till then. Worse, though ... the climax reveals nothing about the mysteries set up in the book for which the reader waded through hundreds of pages for a resolution. I mean, I know this is a series, but I really don't think any of the other books (to my admittedly adled memory) left this much unanswered.

Specifically, I think its b.s. to have so much of the subject matter of this book be about what Snape's true loyalties are ... only to mire it even deeper in mystery rather than illuminate it. I think the book was a cheat, and a tease, and worse - boring till the last few chapters.

I don't like the idea of a "series." These are novels, released years apart and, though they may add up to a larger story, I believe each should be a satisfying work of art in its own right. I also got the feeling, quite strongly, that Rowling was holding back, holding back, saving everything for a final book that cannot possibly contain the entire freaking story, while simultaneously sacrificing the quality of the present book to purportedly add to the quality of the next.

This quote from Jazzman will keenly illustrate the dangers of wait-for-it, wait-for-it, wait-for-it, save it all for last chapter ... only to disappoint.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzman

I just sincerely hope that, after all of this built up anticipation we’re feeling now, the last book doesn't end up with Harry robotically (and moronically) stomping stiffly around and moaning, "Nooooo!!!! Ginnnnn-nnneeeee!!!! Aaaauuuugggghhhhh!!!!!!!!"

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Cadaverous Pallor · 07-29-2005, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendybeth

James Gang

Seems to me, you don't want to talk about it
Seems to me, you just turn your pretty head and walk away...

Now I'm listening to the James Gang.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

...Dead Eater High....DDAATT (Do Dark Arts All The Time) teacher.....Ugly is the new pretty...

LOL!!! Can't mojo you!

's got some points. The book definitely isn't entertaining enough in it's own right. Same was true of Phoenix IMHO. But I'm ok with the idea of a series.

I'd be very surprised if the last book has low points at all.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812 · 07-29-2005, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Ahem, amid all the theories and mysteries and postulations, has anyone ever considered that this was a really crummy book?

We'll just have to disagree, sweets. It's probably my favorite next to Azkaban. I loved it.

innerSpaceman · 07-29-2005, 02:49 PM

OMG, I can't believe it ... from a woman of such otherwise impecable taste! What a shame.

Of course, I could enjoy going along with Harr, and Ron and Herm as they read the phone book in rounds, but I really was getting a little annoyed with how little was happening in this book - that I knew, per the Potter pattern, was all being saved for the last 50 pages.

Those last pages were among the best Potter pages ever written, and of course I loved them. Still, considering the special non-Dursley intro and the thread of evil-Snape vs. trusted-Snape wound all through the book, I really was pissed at more complication on this front rather than even semi-resolution. I don't like cliff-hangers in novels that come out every few years ... and I hate when an artist appears to hold back on the present to attempt a more thrilling potential future. I personally think it's a recipe for artistic failure, but we shall see.

Eliza Hodgkins 1812 · 07-29-2005, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

OMG, I can't believe it ... from a woman of such otherwise impecable taste! What a shame.

Oh, do shut up, you!

I liked the lulls. And I really loved her language in this book, and the lack of ALL CAP HARRY! Her prose was improved and I expected that resolution of the most important elements in the novels wouldn't come until Book 7. I like pining for the resolution. I'd hate to have it all figured out before the end.

I also laughed out loud a lot more while reading this book. There were many funny concepts and lines. I was much pleased.

Now, leave me be!

innerSpaceman · 07-29-2005, 05:27 PM

Fine. Go ahead and enjoy the trashy children's literature.

When did it become ok to have the cliffhanger not solved in the following Saturday's matinee serial episode, nor even at the start-up of September's new television season, but frelling years and years from the end of the last chapter? This is a horrible trend, especially for the ADD generation.

And the nagging questions and precipice-clinging ending of Book 6 is going to make me impatient during the viewing of Movie 4, as if I am being forced to watch the Potter past in slow motion rather than my much desired Trelawney-forseen future.

(BTW, didn't Harry leave Trelawney routed to the spot on his orders, and we never saw her again? I assume she must have been at the funeral, but it wasn't really mentioned. D'ya suppose she could still be in the hallway outside the RofR sipping sherry?)

Name · 07-29-2005, 07:32 PM

I blame the X-files, I think they still have loose ends that have never been tied in that series.

DisneyFan25863 · 08-02-2005, 10:25 PM

Snape Snape Kill Dumb le dore dore kill dumb le dore dore

Sorry, its hilarious.

Ghoulish Delight · 08-03-2005, 09:03 AM

I finished reading yesterday. I'll leave in depth discussion/speculation to the experts. I've read through each book exactly once and don't know the minutia well enough to discuss much.

I enjoyed it, significantly more than I enjoyed book 4. Of course, I'm a big Empire Strikes Back fan, so it's no surprise that I look at iSm's scathing review and say, "Hell yeah, that's what I like about this one!" Expositional, really pushes the story forward, perhaps not a lot of action (but good action when it's there), and ends on downer. My kind of sequel.

I'm not fan of the miscommunicaiton/misunderstanding genre of romance, so the Ron and Hermione thing bugged me. But it's such a common device in all fiction everywhere that I ignore it now.

I think this book had a good mixture of things that she gave you enough clues to figure out and things that she gave you enough clues to lead you astray. For instance, I figured out early on that it was Dumbledore that Malfoy was supposed to kill (confirmed when the bottle of wine meant for Dumbledore was poisoned) and that Snape was the Half Blood Prince (who else would be that good at potions...and she was hinting way to strongly for it to be Harry's mom). Conversely, I was expecting Ginny to die (I knew someone was going to die), and I was expecting it to be revealed that Snape had made an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore (which presumeably would take precedent over any contradictary Vow he makes afterwards). Of course, based on some theories, that may still be true.

One point of contention I had was that during the there were 3, count them, 3 people under the effects of the luck potion outside the Room of Requirement. 3. And Malfoy was able to successfully get past them with no problem. I found that a little odd. The extent of their luck was the killing curses didn't hit them, but we were shown with Harry's experience that they SHOULD have been able to intuitively avoid something like Malfoy's little darkness trick thanks to the potion. (I didn't go through all the spoilers in the other thread, so forgive me, and link me, if this has been discussed).

Eliza Hodgkins 1812 · 08-03-2005, 10:51 AM

It hasn't been discussed. I think it probably just gave priority to not getting killed. Also, they probably took smaller doses, and I think that's has an effect on how much luck you have. I'm not sure. Good point, though. It may also hint that they weren't in as much danger (from Malfoy, for example) as one might suppose.

07-29-2005, 02:49 PM	#34
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	OMG, I can't believe it ... from a woman of such otherwise impecable taste! What a shame. Of course, I could enjoy going along with Harr, and Ron and Herm as they read the phone book in rounds, but I really was getting a little annoyed with how little was happening in this book - that I knew, per the Potter pattern, was all being saved for the last 50 pages. Those last pages were among the best Potter pages ever written, and of course I loved them. Still, considering the special non-Dursley intro and the thread of evil-Snape vs. trusted-Snape wound all through the book, I really was pissed at more complication on this front rather than even semi-resolution. I don't like cliff-hangers in novels that come out every few years ... and I hate when an artist appears to hold back on the present to attempt a more thrilling potential future. I personally think it's a recipe for artistic failure, but we shall see.
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07-29-2005, 05:27 PM	#36
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	Fine. Go ahead and enjoy the trashy children's literature. When did it become ok to have the cliffhanger not solved in the following Saturday's matinee serial episode, nor even at the start-up of September's new television season, but frelling years and years from the end of the last chapter? This is a horrible trend, especially for the ADD generation. And the nagging questions and precipice-clinging ending of Book 6 is going to make me impatient during the viewing of Movie 4, as if I am being forced to watch the Potter past in slow motion rather than my much desired Trelawney-forseen future. (BTW, didn't Harry leave Trelawney routed to the spot on his orders, and we never saw her again? I assume she must have been at the funeral, but it wasn't really mentioned. D'ya suppose she could still be in the hallway outside the RofR sipping sherry?)
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07-29-2005, 07:32 PM	#37
Name Title Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: here Posts: 779	I blame the X-files, I think they still have loose ends that have never been tied in that series. __________________ Signature
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08-02-2005, 10:25 PM	#38
DisneyFan25863 Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Stevenson Ranch, CA Posts: 464	Snape Snape Kill Dumb le dore dore kill dumb le dore dore Sorry, its hilarious.
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08-03-2005, 09:03 AM	#39
Ghoulish Delight I Floop the Pig Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Alternative Swankstyle Posts: 19,348	I finished reading yesterday. I'll leave in depth discussion/speculation to the experts. I've read through each book exactly once and don't know the minutia well enough to discuss much. I enjoyed it, significantly more than I enjoyed book 4. Of course, I'm a big Empire Strikes Back fan, so it's no surprise that I look at iSm's scathing review and say, "Hell yeah, that's what I like about this one!" Expositional, really pushes the story forward, perhaps not a lot of action (but good action when it's there), and ends on downer. My kind of sequel. I'm not fan of the miscommunicaiton/misunderstanding genre of romance, so the Ron and Hermione thing bugged me. But it's such a common device in all fiction everywhere that I ignore it now. I think this book had a good mixture of things that she gave you enough clues to figure out and things that she gave you enough clues to lead you astray. For instance, I figured out early on that it was Dumbledore that Malfoy was supposed to kill (confirmed when the bottle of wine meant for Dumbledore was poisoned) and that Snape was the Half Blood Prince (who else would be that good at potions...and she was hinting way to strongly for it to be Harry's mom). Conversely, I was expecting Ginny to die (I knew someone was going to die), and I was expecting it to be revealed that Snape had made an Unbreakable Vow with Dumbledore (which presumeably would take precedent over any contradictary Vow he makes afterwards). Of course, based on some theories, that may still be true. One point of contention I had was that during the there were 3, count them, 3 people under the effects of the luck potion outside the Room of Requirement. 3. And Malfoy was able to successfully get past them with no problem. I found that a little odd. The extent of their luck was the killing curses didn't hit them, but we were shown with Harry's experience that they SHOULD have been able to intuitively avoid something like Malfoy's little darkness trick thanks to the potion. (I didn't go through all the spoilers in the other thread, so forgive me, and link me, if this has been discussed). __________________ 'He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me.' -TJ
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08-03-2005, 10:51 AM	#40
Eliza Hodgkins 1812 Sputnik Sweetheart Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Long Beach Posts: 2,685	It hasn't been discussed. I think it probably just gave priority to not getting killed. Also, they probably took smaller doses, and I think that's has an effect on how much luck you have. I'm not sure. Good point, though. It may also hint that they weren't in as much danger (from Malfoy, for example) as one might suppose.
	Submit to Quotes