Katrina Response Mismanagement - Page 22

Gemini Cricket · 09-14-2005, 12:55 PM

I don't understand why the Senate voted down a Katrina Commission...

Click

Gn2Dlnd · 09-14-2005, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Yeah, speak for yourself.

I'm outnumbered enough around here already by all you liberal nutjobs.

Mmm, nutjobs. :drool:

Morrigoon · 09-14-2005, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

Obviously time for another Carville therapy session. The last one must not have been strong enough.

Here, lie down and take this pill. We'll have you chanting "universal health care for all!" in no time.

After this you want the government involved in health care??? It'll take a congressional hearing to get your emergency appendectomy approved!

Gn2Dlnd · 09-14-2005, 01:43 PM

Oh Mori, Mori, Mori. The Katrina response is an example of the Bush admin's cronyism and classism, not an indictment of the U.S. government.

Morrigoon · 09-14-2005, 01:52 PM

Feh! The Katrina response is an indictment of the ineptitude of government on ALL levels.

Gn2Dlnd · 09-14-2005, 01:58 PM

Well, in the interest of keeping roads paved and food safe, I'd like to keep the government, if you don't mind.

The pros and cons of dismantling the government would make an interesting new thread, though.

Ghoulish Delight · 09-14-2005, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

Feh! The Katrina response is an indictment of the ineptitude of government on ALL levels.

FEMA was well on its way to functionality (again I point to the excellent response to the Northridge quake) until it got slapped under Homeland Security and stripped of its cabinet level position. The head, who had made some good changes quit and was replaced with Browny. And here we are.

innerSpaceman · 09-14-2005, 02:12 PM

The government is actually doing a lousy job of keeping roads paved and food safe. But who would you have replace them on those functions, Morrigoon.

Oh, and answer about food saftey first, if you wouldn't mind.

Morrigoon · 09-14-2005, 02:15 PM

I'm not suggesting the dismantling of government. In fact, in my last post, I erased a whole paragraph about the government having the responsibility to maintain roads, borders, and order. But when they overstep those bounds, they introduce inefficiencies which translate into waste or mismanagement.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have been responsible for getting those people out, certainly they were (maintain order), but the fact is, they DIDN'T DO IT. They had busses sitting right there, they had the knowledge that the city could be flooded, they had research that showed a flooded New Orleans would be a toxic disaster. They didn't do it.

These are not the types of people I want in charge of my health care.

In fact, the only form of "universal health care" I'd support would take the form of insurance. Unfortunately, that still gives the gov't a dangerous level of control over the health care industry, making it less profitable, and therefore, discouraging any kind of innovation or quality.

But I'm going way OT here, sorry.

FEMA was very clearly incompetently led. But this is still an indictment of government at all levels. There never should have been that many people for FEMA to have to come rescue in the first place. The way Louisiana mishandled the hurricane Ivan evacuation, plus the mishandling of the Katrina one both led to there being far more people in NO than there should have been. Some by choice, remembering the hassle of trying to leave the city last time, and some by circumstance, being too poor to leave unless the city busses were used.

There was no organization of the effort either. Had there been concrete plans in place for busses and citizens to meet at specified locations in the city, to be transported out of there, both the city and the citizens could have acted quickly, way in advance, to clear out. None of that happened. People were sent to locations that took days for authorities to become aware of, with no supplies, no communication, nothing.

You can't blame Bush for not knowing there were people at the convention center. Whoever sent people there (governor?) should have made sure that rescue organizations were aware. If the convention center had been a pre-planned shelter or gathering point, then the governor's office could have kept information on those locations on file to email to FEMA well in advance of the storm actually hitting the city.

But I *do* wonder at FEMA not staging trucks and rescue units... I'd like to hear more on the chain of command and communication that would/should have led to that happening.

Morrigoon · 09-14-2005, 03:00 PM

Okay, even though this article is called "How Bush Blew It", it's really quite an interesting insight into the entire multi-level mess.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9287434/

All I can say is Kathleen Blanco needs to be removed from office, pronto.

09-14-2005, 12:55 PM	#211
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	I don't understand why the Senate voted down a Katrina Commission... Click
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09-14-2005, 01:43 PM	#214
Gn2Dlnd Parmmadore Jim Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Casita del Queso Posts: 3,810	Oh Mori, Mori, Mori. The Katrina response is an example of the Bush admin's cronyism and classism, not an indictment of the U.S. government. __________________ Does anyone still wear a hat?
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09-14-2005, 01:52 PM	#215
Morrigoon I throw stones at houses Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Location: Location Posts: 9,534	Feh! The Katrina response is an indictment of the ineptitude of government on ALL levels. __________________ http://bash.org/?top "It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." -- William Randolph Inge
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09-14-2005, 01:58 PM	#216
Gn2Dlnd Parmmadore Jim Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Casita del Queso Posts: 3,810	Well, in the interest of keeping roads paved and food safe, I'd like to keep the government, if you don't mind. The pros and cons of dismantling the government would make an interesting new thread, though. __________________ Does anyone still wear a hat?
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09-14-2005, 02:12 PM	#218
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	The government is actually doing a lousy job of keeping roads paved and food safe. But who would you have replace them on those functions, Morrigoon. Oh, and answer about food saftey first, if you wouldn't mind.
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09-14-2005, 02:15 PM	#219
Morrigoon I throw stones at houses Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Location: Location Posts: 9,534	I'm not suggesting the dismantling of government. In fact, in my last post, I erased a whole paragraph about the government having the responsibility to maintain roads, borders, and order. But when they overstep those bounds, they introduce inefficiencies which translate into waste or mismanagement. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have been responsible for getting those people out, certainly they were (maintain order), but the fact is, they DIDN'T DO IT. They had busses sitting right there, they had the knowledge that the city could be flooded, they had research that showed a flooded New Orleans would be a toxic disaster. They didn't do it. These are not the types of people I want in charge of my health care. In fact, the only form of "universal health care" I'd support would take the form of insurance. Unfortunately, that still gives the gov't a dangerous level of control over the health care industry, making it less profitable, and therefore, discouraging any kind of innovation or quality. But I'm going way OT here, sorry. FEMA was very clearly incompetently led. But this is still an indictment of government at all levels. There never should have been that many people for FEMA to have to come rescue in the first place. The way Louisiana mishandled the hurricane Ivan evacuation, plus the mishandling of the Katrina one both led to there being far more people in NO than there should have been. Some by choice, remembering the hassle of trying to leave the city last time, and some by circumstance, being too poor to leave unless the city busses were used. There was no organization of the effort either. Had there been concrete plans in place for busses and citizens to meet at specified locations in the city, to be transported out of there, both the city and the citizens could have acted quickly, way in advance, to clear out. None of that happened. People were sent to locations that took days for authorities to become aware of, with no supplies, no communication, nothing. You can't blame Bush for not knowing there were people at the convention center. Whoever sent people there (governor?) should have made sure that rescue organizations were aware. If the convention center had been a pre-planned shelter or gathering point, then the governor's office could have kept information on those locations on file to email to FEMA well in advance of the storm actually hitting the city. But I do wonder at FEMA not staging trucks and rescue units... I'd like to hear more on the chain of command and communication that would/should have led to that happening. __________________ http://bash.org/?top "It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." -- William Randolph Inge
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09-14-2005, 03:00 PM	#220
Morrigoon I throw stones at houses Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Location: Location Posts: 9,534	Okay, even though this article is called "How Bush Blew It", it's really quite an interesting insight into the entire multi-level mess. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9287434/ All I can say is Kathleen Blanco needs to be removed from office, pronto. __________________ http://bash.org/?top "It is useless for sheep to pass a resolution in favor of vegetarianism while wolves remain of a different opinion." -- William Randolph Inge Last edited by Morrigoon : 09-14-2005 at 03:09 PM.
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