Fate and Destiny: a philosophy thread

[Capt Jack]

I've thought about posting this for awhile now. Written and deleted it at least a half dozen times...but eh, I figure what have I got to lose. Right?

Right.

Ok, Ive been around you folks for a bit now and we've got more than our share of deep thinkers. Life experienced folks with alot to add to nearly any topic one can come up with. Before I get this started, just a quick side note or three.

Without getting into details, there have been events in my life of late that have me pondering alot of things from alot of perspectives. Alot of "how did I get here?" "what the 773H do I do now?" etc etc.

Some of it has brought me to pondering fate and destiny at length. Not so much from a cause and effect standpoint, but moreso to the extend of 'does fate and or destiny exist?'

So...with that out of the way your opinions and candid responses would be greatly appreciated. I'm not looking to start a debate on the existance of a divine diety, heaven and hell or right and wrong. Now I also dont want to pidgeon hole anyone into answering within any bounds, so if you think it relevant, please feel free. (Just please, respect each others beliefs whether or not you believe the same)

ok...here goes

Do you believe in fate? destiny?
Do you believe that some events in our lives are preordained to work out a certain way regardless of what we do or dont do? or is it more a matter of personal choices...rights and lefts and pure coincidence? a combination of all of the above?
Regardless of what you think.....why?

my deepest thanks to you all in advance.

Capt Jack

[€uroMeinke]

I stand in the far end of the "Free Will" camp and side with the existentialists in this matter. That is, fate and destiny don't exist in a "preordained" sense, rather we choose our destiny, make decissions based on that "chosen" path, and take responsibility for what comes.

The more playful part of me, loves to take a look at past events and "create" a destiny as one interprets a painting, or posits theories from a set of facts. I don't necessarily believe in these "discovered" destinies - but sometimes they give insight to psychological motives as to choices made.

So my purpose is my own making, my destiny is how others interpret my life when I'm no longer here living it.

[Alex]

I don't believe there is free will. So in the sense that everthing reduces to basic chemical and physical reactions then fate and destiny exist.

That said, the chemical and physical reactions interact on such an immense scale, with built in elements of uncertainty that the ultimate result is completely unknowable.

Also, in the sense that "fate" and "destiny" suggest a plan or puprose, there is no such.

[innerSpaceman]

While I don't exactly believe in fate or destiny, I think our souls are drawn to certain life experiences and to certain other souls such that certain elements of our lives can be seen as preordained.

I think that each of us is creating the universe around us with our thoughts and words and actions, and that to the extent the world seems solid and unchanging - with the freeways, for example, right where we left them yesterday - it is so because of the shared force of all our consciousnesses on a sort of agreed-upon reality.

In this metaphysical view of the universe, much of what happens can be seen as both fate and completely free willed, all at once. It doesn't help to straighten out matters that I believe all of time to be happening at the same time. That events of a thousand years ago and a million years hence are all happening at once, and are all happening right now. Now being all there is - and time, just like everything else in the physical realm, being merely an illusion. Though, from our perspective as humans, a damn convincing illusion.


I think we pick our parents before we are born, and so perhaps the type of upbringing we have and the resulting type of person we are can be viewed as a type of self-created destiny. I also believe that certain other spirits are drawn to us lifetime after lifetime - in this one as our lover, in the next maybe as our child - such that these meetings and reunions are also a type of destiny.

But I don't think there's anything we are here to DO, or that we are here to learn anything in particular on our journey through each lifetime. It's all free will - with the power of our will to create - and that we are creating our reality all the time - whether we do so consciously or not, whether we are meaning to or not. And so, we are free to create for ourselves a destiny, if we so desire. And we are free to create a fulfillment of fate - - even if we are the ones who created that fate to begin with.





Edited to add: I do believe in karma, but perhaps not the type of karma that is popularly imagined as one life being filled with the results of the past lifetime's deeds. That being said, however, I think there is something to the concept of what goes around, comes around. And I also believe that we tend to become that which we judge.

Perhaps the goes around, comes around is a result of our own consciences, our own guilt - and that maybe people without any remorse whatsoever dont' create the universe where they get what's coming to them. And perhaps the becoming that which we judge is simply a matter of wishing to experience all aspects of being, and not some sort of cosmic retribution for the sin of being judgmental.

In any case, these forms of karma can be independent of us or can be created by us. Perhaps some of the karmic forces are a result of the mass consciousness. But again, it's all a hopelessly tangled combination of free will and destiny at work.

[innerSpaceman]

Did i answer the question?

[Kevy Baby]

I just love these silly friovolous threads!

I believe that everything happens in our lives because we make it so, whether intentionally or unintentionally, consciously or unconsciously, physically or energetically. With that, I try to take responsibility for my actions in life, be they good or bad. This thought is also why I believe that the single largest problem befalling our society is that of personal responsibility - it is woefully missing in the world today.

Like ISM, I believe in Karma. More specifically, as I practice a Wiccan belief, I believe in the 3-Fold Reed: that everything you send out in the world will come back to you three-fold.

When I was younger I would often fantasize that all of life was just a huge play and everybody was just acting their role. Not sure how this fits in with the question, but it seemed as good as any time to bring it up.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Did i answer the question?

I don't know how the OP feels, but I think you did a fine job!

[€uroMeinke]

Oddly enough, I think it's Alex's "unknowable" which makes me abandon any absolute metaphysics and fall back on phenomenology, my experience of the world - stating with the Cartesian premise, "I think therefore I am."

Alex's view may well be reality, but does nothing to inform me of how I might change my actions. See, illusory or not - I experience the world as if I have free will and even if I come to the conclusion that science reduces all my actions into chemical or sub-atomic reactions - I'm still left with a notions of "well, what am I going to do about it then?" and the illusion of free will emerges again, so in my phenomenological world, I have to accept that.

Steve's notion of the nonexistence - or ultimate compression of time is an interesting one, that there is no duration or sequence, rather just being - if I understand correctly. It makes questions of fate or destiny rather different, in a sense it becomes all the stuff that you are missing in that sigularity of compressed time. For me though, since I experience the passge of time, I have to also reject that notion even if it is true, as I have a creative sense of guiding my future.

[wendybeth]

I have a very scattered and selective philosophical view of my life- I don't presume to know what's going on in anyone elses sphere of existence- kinda got my hands full with my own.

First and foremost- depends on my mood. Seriously- I can be so damned mercurial, and I know it. I suppose at my core I believe in personal responsibility and choice, yet I can't help but notice how fated things can sometimes appear to be. I was raised by a relatively enlightened madwoman, who exposed me to whatever religion/philosophy/scientific discipline she was following at the time. As a result, I learned a little about a lot, particularily eastern religions and metaphysical philosophies. (Damned Sixties!) The only thing that has remained constant over the years is this persistant feeling I've always had that there is much I cannot know now, but someday I will know it. That's enough for me, but it doesn't keep me from searching. I also believe in the concept of karma, in that there must be balance in all things natural, and anytime that balance is thrown off the offender will pay- one way or another.

Tomorrow, I will post something quite different. Told you I was moody.

[Gemini Cricket]

My answer: I don't know.

[Ghoulish Delight]

I'm with € n the "sure it MIGHT be that way, but I gotta go with what I can see from my perspective" camp. I'm perfectly willing to believe my sense of self is a complete illusion, the result of an elaborate dream by some other being. But even if that's so, I have no way to experience myself as that, all I have is the perception of this life.

As for what that perception is...I suppose I believe in the possibility of fate and destiny, but believe it's so unknowable as to be irrelevent. I simply live my life by making the choices I think are right. Whether those choices are truly free or guided entirely by some other force (natural, pretanatural, supernatural, unnatural) I'll never know. So I tend not to really ponder it too much.

I do believe in God, but so far the only thing I've proven to myself is the existence of that God, not "his" nature. I have some assumptions and working theories, but none of them are solid. Therefore, my personal sense of self and morality that I've built remain valid to me whether God exists or not. While I personally believe that God does have something to do with my life, if I'm wrong about that I would still prefer my life to have some meaning, so I make my own.