The Challenge of "Culture"

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Heh, regardless of function I always enjoy watching the corwd, I always like to make up storeis (for good and bad) how each got to the same place we're at.

I do that sometimes. I usually do that at the park.

I also sit and wonder at opera performances, who decided for all the old ladies in the world that opera = big cluster hair and furs.

[innerSpaceman]

I find the thread in this thread about lyrics to be most interesting. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I think lyrics are vitally important. I hate when I can't understand what the singer is "saying." While it's true that so much is told musically, it's also true that if a song has lyrics - - most of its communication is through language.

I always look up lyrics when I can't understand them from being sung. I must know what is being told by the human voice. And while I can appreciate foreign language vocals for the musicality of voice, I feel like I am missing something dreadfully important when I can't understand the language. (Which is why I prefer the case of Cirque du Soleil, which features a made-up language that truly relies only on vocal musicality to communicate).


Interestingly, lyrics are one of the amazing things about human memory. Most people can remember most lyrics to most songs for absofreakinglutely ever. The brain pathways to musical lyrics are the most reliable memory pathways in the human mind. We remember song lyrics we unconsciously learned 20 years ago, but remember little else from 20 years ago. We may not remember what we did last weekend, but we will recall lyrics of a song we heard on the radio 238 weekends ago.

[innerSpaceman]

[This may be the first of many double posts, as I am just having time now to respond to this fantastic thread ... which I'm glad is seeing a bit of a resurgence (since I missed it the first time around).]



I think one of the reasons I prefer music over visual arts is that music can be heard everywhere and anywhere. I do not need to go to a gallery or a museum to experience music.

And while it is true that live music is appreciably better than recorded music, I do not feel anyone is missing the essence of a musical piece if they are listening to a reproduced version that's been recorded. The same cannot be said of art. Most artworks I have seen are far, far different in person ... with say a photographic or print representation being a mere 2-D image of a three-dimensional work (even "flat" paintings owe so much to the texture of the work).


Photography may be one of the world's great achievements for its ability to provide images of things that people might not otherwise see. But recorded music is, imo, a far greater miracle of human endeavor. Think of how much less music would be in each of our lives if our experiences of live music were our only experiences of music. How much richer are our lives than those of our ancestors now that music is transferable, portable, everywhere, and at our fingertips!?!

[innerSpaceman]

As for so-called high culture ... I despise opera and ballet. Mind you, I LOVE LOVE and LOVE dance, but ballet is far from my favorite form of it. Opera, to me, is absurd if you don't understand the language of the piece. That rules out 98.6% of opera for me.

I guess I'm more lowbrow in my tastes of musical theater and dance, both of which I adore. I happen to love classical music, so I'm pretty highbrow there .... however, I would get kicked out of bougeouis salon society if they ever learned that I consider film scores to be the classical music of our day, and love them accordingly. John Williams or Ludwig von Beethovan, it's all orchestral masterwork to me.

[Gemini Cricket]

Opera in English kind of throws me whenever I see it on PBS. It... just... doesn't... seem... right...

I adore musical theatre. Love it, love it. My only problem with it is that as soon as I see one I like, I have to go out and buy the CD soundtrack... That can get expensive because those CDs never seem to go on sale.

[Not Afraid]

I LOVE contemporary dance. LOVE IT!
I don't love classical Ballet
I sort of like opera but I don't seek it out
I really like the contemporary opera I've seen live (Satyagraha)
I appreciate classical music, both old and new, but it's not what I listen to the most.
I LOVE music of the now in all, welll most, forms.
I love all art - I respond to most types of visual stimulation.
What I don't respond to well is contemporary Broadway musicals.

So, in looking at what I really love, it is the new stuff that really turns me on. I'm not very highbrow in the classical sense at all. Although, all visual art is exciting to me. I think I just like to get a peak under the tent towards the now and future of art and culture.

[Prudence]

I have kind of a love/hate attitude toward classical ballet. I admire the physical agility and grace, but I'm not a big fan of the physical demands on dancers, the same way I'm not a big fan of the environment around some sports. (I'm all for the best of the best, but I'm don't like it when "the best" is achieved through unhealthy means.)

I like some modern dance that incorporates the techniques from classical ballet without the assigned gender roles (girl looks pretty and twirls en pointe, guy gets to jump and lift.) I dislike modern dance that is allegedly enacting a theme or story so obscure that it has to be explained to me in the program.

Opera -- again, a little love/hate. Recitatives annoy me. Sing or don't sing. I realize this is sort of what makes opera opera and not musical theatre, but it's the part I don't like. But aside from that - it's like musical theatre to classical music and I love it.

Musical theatre -- For the most part, I love musical theatre. But honestly, I prefer the earlier stuff. Once you hit the Andrew Lloyd Webber years I kind of stop paying attention. There are exceptions that prove the rule, of course.

Non-musical theatre -- Hard to describe what I like and don't, except that like modern dance, I don't like the "look at me! I'm modern and avant garde!" plays.

Love classical music. Love renaissance music. Love baroque music. Love early polyphonic music. Love contemporary classical that sounds like it might be one of the above.

Art? not my best subject. I sort of "get it" up through the impressionists. I'm a little skeptical of post-impressionists and by the time you hit cubists I'm totally lost.

[alphabassettgrrl]

ISM, I'm with you on the lyrics. I very much enjoy them. I thought I was the only one who searched for them when I can't understand them from the song! It's one reason I like buying the CDs- they often have the lyrics printed there for me.

I'm learning to appreciate the instrument lines and their interactions.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

...While it's true that so much is told musically, it's also true that if a song has lyrics - - most of its communication is through language.

As a former communications major, I'll have to challenge you on that. Even in face to face conversations your lucky if you get anywhere near 50% of the communication happening through the words.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

Think of how much less music would be in each of our lives if our experiences of live music were our only experiences of music. How much richer are our lives than those of our ancestors now that music is transferable, portable, everywhere, and at our fingertips!?!

I was thinking this the other day as I was enjoying my iPod on the Metro. But I also thought that with all this musical technology few of us ever make our own music anymore. Not that I ever sang or played an instrument - but now I don't have to and another creative outlet is now closed (or at least limited) for me and those like me

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I think one of the reasons I prefer music over visual arts is that music can be heard everywhere and anywhere. I do not need to go to a gallery or a museum to experience music.

I guess I take the John Cage approach to music and apply it to the visula world as well - that is, the music is all around you - as is the art. Sure you can go to a concert or a gallery, but the world is full of stunning sounds and images. Now that I ride the Metro, I've become more and more inlove with the architecture of this town, and the fashions of it's inhabitants.

This morning I got a kick seeing how people subtly and not-so-subtly aknowledged the occasion of valentires day. The best, a gall in pink and red striped stockings in otherwise well tailored conservative, though hip skirt suit - we traded smiles passing ewach other in the corridors. To be sure it's not the same as viewing a Kandinsky, but the sense of wit, humor, and celebration were conveyed just the same.