Howl's Moving Castle

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

I know the point you're trying to make GC, but since the obvious exceptions don't actually weaken the point being made in my generalization (as they do in your generalization) I don't really think it is the same thing.

Huh? I meant that Lani is a Japanese American and that she would catch such references... Referring to the first part of your post. But since I didn't quote that then I guess I was once again being unclear???
Do I have to qualify each and every post of mine? If so, I need to dust off my Stoup to English dictionary because I haven't used it since MP.

[Alex]

If I was wrong in my assumption then I apologize. I don't think I was but so be it.

But my initial response that there are all kinds of rare exceptions to the generalization stands. Do we need to list them all?

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

If I was wrong in my assumption then I apologize. I don't think I was but so be it.

But my initial response that there are all kinds of rare exceptions to the generalization stands. Do we need to list them all?

I accept your apology if that's what it was.

We could list them all, I suppose. If that's what you want.

[innerSpaceman]

I don't want the list of exceptions, but I DO want Lani's (or Alex's) list of over-your-stupid-American-heads mythic Japanese folklore items ... so's I can enjoy Spirited Away even more than I already do.

[Alex]

Well, I don't know that I will ever again be able to distract her from World of Warcraft long enough to actually watch an entire movie.

But she did address some of the untranslated (though not so much the differently translated) elements of the movie in our review of the DVD.

The relevant paragraphs:

One notable disadvantage for American audiences is that the characters' Japanese names all reflect their personalities in one way or another. The "No Face" spirit is the only one whose Japanese name is translated into English, and it is a good example of how the name should indicate what that character is. To lose one's name or one's identity is to lose one's face to the world. And this is illustrated by No Face, who has no name or identity, and is lost without the acceptance of others.

"Kamaji," for example, literally means "old man of the furnace," while "Haku" means "white" and "Boh" means "young boy."

One rather significant explanation lost in the translation is what happens to Chihiro when Yubaba steals her name. In the name-stealing scene, Chihiro spells out "Ogino Chihiro," her surname and given name, in Japanese kanji characters. The kanji for "Chihiro" uses two characters meaning "a thousand fathoms" — indicating her tremendous depth of character. When Yubaba robs the second part of her name ("fathoms"), all Chihiro is left with is the character for "thousand": She has been converted from one of depth, to one that is scattered and confused, amid a swirl of a thousand broken pieces.

Finally, it was almost impossible for the translators to sufficiently explain the critical importance of the seal, and the significance of its theft. In traditional Japanese society (and even today to a certain extent), contracts and letters were never signed with a signature, but with a family's official seal. To steal another person's seal was to steal his very identity, not at all unlike modern-day identity theft where a hacker opens credit cards in a victim's name. Official seals were etched out by master carvers, and the little nicks and strokes were scrutinized just as fingerprints are today whenever there was a dispute as to the legitimacy of a contract authorized by the stamp of a seal. The translators instead did what they could, to refer to the seal as a "golden seal," thereby giving it the value of a family heirloom treasure.

[Not Afraid]

I watch animated films as much for the visual art as I do for the story. I like to see the dubbed version at least the first time soI can concentrate on the beautiful art of Ghibli rather than on reading subtitles. On a second viewing, I like to watch the subtitled.

For non-animated films, I only watch subtitled versions. But, I usually have to see the greatly visuals films a couple of times to fully appreciate the film as a whole.

[innerSpaceman]

Heheh, I find it amusing that I am oooh-ahhed at the wonderment of character clues in the names of Ghibli creations ... and yet I moan in horror when I find such simplistic claptrap in Harry Potter or Star Wars.

I think it's not simply my cultural reverance for Nipponese, but rather the obviously crafty way it's done in the fine example quoted above from Lani's review of Spirited Away vs. the hammer-headed, retarded-child way it's done by the likes of J.K. Rowling and George Lucas.







* - my praise is for the Thousand Fathoms example only. The other two are just as lametard as the Brit and American style of revelatory names.

[Alex]

I also think it is different in Japanese where the underlying meaning of a name is readily apparent to any literate person.

In English, "Alexander" means "defending men" only because there are scholars of dead languages to tell me so. Whereas in Japanese, Lani is reminded that "Akiko" (her first name) means "autumn child" every time she sees it written. Descriptive names are standard in Japanese whereas in the U.S. they are more a sign of hippie parents (we'd think nothing of it if you had a name that meant rainbow in 4th century Gaelic but actually naming a kid Rainbow is something different) and as with astrology finding meaning in things in Western culture I think the Japanese folklore assumption that your name has power to shape who you become is much stronger.

I wonder if a Japanese person find it lame when reading a translatin of Gibson and says "can you believe he named the main character Hiro Protagonist?"

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I thought Christian Bale's husky voice being used for the lithe and youthful Howl was ridiculous.

I had the same reaction. But I wonder if it was because we heard the Japanese characterization first. I imagine we might have just accepted husky Howl if that's how we'd first been introduced to him.

[innerSpaceman]

Hooray. I received the book from Amazon today, and I can't wait to find out whether Howl is really an effeminate, adolescent Nipponese boy or a husky-voiced, sexified American mangod.


(Oh, and I screened the film for zapppop over the weekend and he seemed to like it.)