With Sept 11 coming up...

[FEJ]

Have you watched this documentary? It is a little long, but worth watching. Also please read the rest of the site for more background.

It has some good points... What is your opinion? Would they stoop so low? I wouldn't put it past them.

[Alex]

It's so rife with errors and conjecture that I find it hard to take very seriously. I haven't watched the second edition in its entirety but the parts I saw made claims essentially similar to what I had seen in the first version so I assume it is similarly full of crap.

Many of the claims have been refuted many times over the last five years. There's a fair amount of sarcasm and anger but this addresses the video in tedious details. This Popular Mechanics article attempts to debunk the most common 9/11 myths, most of which appear in the Loose Change video. Here's a blog focused on debunking Loose Change.

Personally, the conspiracy posited by Loose Change is so huge, malignant, and convoluted to strike me as patently unlikely on the face. Combine this with the evidence in counter to specific points (such as the claimed lack of airplane debris at the Pentagon crash site when in fact there is plenty of evidence of debris at the site) and I'm barely intrigued.

Unfortunately, I expect that in another 10 years it will have grown to Kennedy assassination proportions in terms of general acceptance.

[wendybeth]

Do you remember how oil and pharmaceutical stocks rose after Bush's 'election'? Nothing would surprise me in this world, absolutely nothing. Who'd have thought we would be where we are now, a mere decade ago?

I thnk Cheney is truly evil personified, and I am certain that history will bear that out. He's a bastard, and a terrible shot. ALready things are playing out that supporters are being very quiet about, namely the accusation by the ABA and key Repubs that Bush is usurping the Constitutional process with his 'signatures' to bills, which already outweigh the combined total of his preds. I've been patiently waiting for a conservative commentary on this, and there has been nothing but silence. I try and stay away from any sort of conspiracy theories, but it's really very difficult. I didn't watch the film at this site, but I will. (When I don't have to be a good worker bee and go and make money to pay my taxes to support the wars and ....sigh).


I just wanted to add: I feel sorry for all those that are so afraid that they are willing to sign away their hard won liberties so readily. I'm not.

[FEJ]

Thanks Alex. Thats why I posted this. I was shown it the other day. I wanted others views and info/links they may have. . I don't really want to believe that our government (or certain people in it) conspire like this, but unfortunately, I wouldn't put it past a few of them.

[innerSpaceman]

I frankly don't believe our government is capable of a conspiracy that large, though I wouldn't put it past it's motives.

On the other hand, the Kennedy assassination is a very manageable, though huge, conspiracy .... I'm quite disappointed that Oliver Stone has gone from one of the greatest American conspiracy films of all time (with JFK) to - what seems to be - a sob story with nada hint of nefariousness in the upcoming World Trade Center.


With a government that won't tell the truth, however, it's hard to totally discount certain conspiracy theories. I certainly believe wholeheartedly in a related conspiracy between the Administration and the EPA to hide the dangers of post-9/11, lower Manhattan contamination from the public. News on that has been steadily trickling out, and I believe a new batch of information was published in the New York Daily News this past week.


So motives yes, if they could get away with it, yes ... but capabilities - pfft, based on the handling of something as important as international War - - I'd have to say No.

[Stan4dSteph]

I saw the Nova special on PBS where they analyzed why the WTC collapsed the way it did. The failure analysis of their engineers was very well presented.

[Kevy Baby]

I still have to change the channel if footage of any of those events comes up. It is still too painful to watch.

I haven't been to/won't see any of the movies about 9/11

[innerSpaceman]

I haven't seen the evidence on that either way, I admit ... but in a common sensical, on-its-face way ... I am cynical about those buildings simply collapsing because of the collision damage, heat and fire.


I witnessed the Towers being built on a weekly basis. I've seen their skeletons and such, and I just don't see how damage at the tops could bring the Towers down.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

I still have to change the channel if footage of any of those events comes up. It is still too painful to watch.

I haven't been to/won't see any of the movies about 9/11

And, not to be creepy or anything, but I can't get enough of it. I thought the recent United 93 movie was excellent, and I'm really looking forward to World Trade Center (and to featuring them both as a home DVD double-feature in the future).

Maybe it's because I'm a New Yorker, worked for years two blocks from the Towers, ate lunch there very often, and hung out on the roof frequently during lunch hours.


I think I've mentioned it here before, but because zapppop has a famously phonographic and photographic memory, he cannot shake disturbing imagery - - -and i regret taking him to see United 93. Needless to say, he will not be seeing World Trade Center - or likely reading this thread .... he's pretty sick of 9/11 Mania and would just like to see it go away.


I, on the other hand, find it endlessly fascinating and don't intend to ever forget it.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I witnessed the Towers being built on a weekly basis. I've seen their skeletons and such, and I just don't see how damage at the tops could bring the Towers down.

The explanation (as seen on scientific shows) is actually quite simple.

First, the planes hit closer to the middle than to the top (CORRECTION: ONE of the planes hit closer to the middle, the other was closer to the top). Plane crashes into building with full loads of fuel. Plane and building start burning. Burning jet fuel starts flowing down building on the inside, burning at MUCH higher temperatures than the building was designed to handle, weakening the steel and causing those levels to collapse. Force of impact of the top half of the building into the bottom half was too much for bottom half and it collapsed.

If you prefer a more detailed explanation, I found this, this, and this (as well as a ton of others if you search Google).