The Schiavo issue

[Nephythys]

MBC- with all due respect you don't know all the facts either- there are plenty of things that are being said about the husband, and even if some is not true, some is bound to be exactly that- true. You can't just assume that he is some saint- he has acted as anything but. I don't see how you can just assume he is sincerely acting out of concern to her or for her so-called wishes.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

MBC- with all due respect you don't know all the facts either- there are plenty of things that are being said about the husband, and even if some is not true, some is bound to be exactly that- true. You can't just assume that he is some saint- he has acted as anything but. I don't see how you can just assume he is sincerely acting out of concern to her or for her so-called wishes.

Terry Shiavo's parents have had every opportunity to make their case. They have failed in every court they have been in. They never even called that nurse in their defense and I can only assume it is because she is not credible. The arguments about Michael Shiavo just being in this for the money don't stand up to scrutiny either. He has been offered at least 1 million dollars, and some say even 20 million, to relinquish his rights to make decisions for his wife. He has refused. Why do you think that is?

All we have is a bunch of unsubstantiated hearsay that has tried to demonize him. I don't assume he is a saint, but I see someone who has tried for 20 years to uphold his wife's wishes. And I am interested in why you persist in calling them her "so-called" wishes. It is not just Michael's word. It was backed up by at least 4 other people in court. And EVERY court and EVERY judge has reached the same conclusion. Michael Shiavo has the right to make this decision for his wife. That is the law and it should be followed.

This is not a decision that should be made by Washington. That goes against everything conservatives are supposed to believe in. 70% of the population feels that they should stay the hell out of it because it isn't the governments role.

I can't help but feel that your opinion is 99% emotion and 1% facts and those facts weren't strong enough to sway any court this has been tried in. Yes, it is very sad that this woman is going to die. I do feel for her parents. They are doing what they are doing out of the love for their daughter. I get that. But they are not valuing their daughters wishes and that is wrong. There is not one doctor out there (not on the parents payroll) who sees any hope of recovery here. Let this poor woman go and stop using her for political purposes.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

Terry Shiavo's parents have had every opportunity to make their case. They have failed in every court they have been in. They never even called that nurse in their defense and I can only assume it is because she is not credible. The arguments about Michael Shiavo just being in this for the money don't stand up to scrutiny either. He has been offered at least 1 million dollars, and some say even 20 million, to relinquish his rights to make decisions for his wife. He has refused. Why do you think that is?

All we have is a bunch of unsubstantiated hearsay that has tried to demonize him. I don't assume he is a saint, but I see someone who has tried for 20 years to uphold his wife's wishes. And I am interested in why you persist in calling them her "so-called" wishes. It is not just Michael's word. It was backed up by at least 4 other people in court. And EVERY court and EVERY judge has reached the same conclusion. Michael Shiavo has the right to make this decision for his wife. That is the law and it should be followed.

This is not a decision that should be made by Washington. That goes against everything conservatives are supposed to believe in. 70% of the population feels that they should stay the hell out of it because it isn't the governments role.

I can't help but feel that your opinion is 99% emotion and 1% facts and those facts weren't strong enough to sway any court this has been tried in. Yes, it is very sad that this woman is going to die. I do feel for her parents. They are doing what they are doing out of the love for their daughter. I get that. But they are not valuing their daughters wishes and that is wrong. There is not one doctor out there (not on the parents payroll) who sees any hope of recovery here. Let this poor woman go and stop using her for political purposes.

I don't give a rats ass about the politics. As I said before I think the gov't should have stayed out of it. Don't make the assumption that I want to have the gov't making the decisions, I never said I did.

It took him something like SEVEN years to start fighting to have this happen- If I feel something akin to disgust and distrust, oh well. If this was truly her wish, then why in the world did he drag it out this long?

At this point it needs to be over-

[€uroMeinke]

You know, lot's of people marry jerks - but should the legal presumption always be that the spouse might be a jerk and not really acting on the other spouses best behalf. With all the "unknowns" it seems you are left to fall back on the legal rules and procedures - and I'm not sure if they include a gaurdian jerk assessment. But this is well outside my realm of expertise.

I gave the DNR order for my father, and no one ever questioned my intentions. Still his death came long after he wanted it, after I foolishly talked him out of suicide. Such a wierd thing to regret.

[Claire]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

I gave the DNR order for my father, and no one ever questioned my intentions. Still his death came long after he wanted it, after I foolishly talked him out of suicide. Such a wierd thing to regret.

My grandpa died from lung cancer a few years ago and he tried to kill himself by stuffing tiny pieces of tissue in his vent tube. He wanted to be done. He'd said his goodbyes in the prior week, he was ready to go. Then the alarm went off on his machines and everyone knew what he had done.....and you know, it made it easier to let him go. Knowing how extremely ready he was. He died about two weeks later. Ack. Now I'll cry. It was a private matter, and very difficult for everyone in my Catholic family to deal with--not just his death but that he'd tried to commit suicide.

The political stuff has really gotten to me. My family would be mortified if the fact that my grandpa had tried to kill himself was in the news. If any part of his death was in the news. Some things should remain in the family. When it can't stay that way--mediation. Beyond that? Okay, a local court. Ugh, then a state court. But to take it to a federal level? To me, it's just disgusting.

I know I've been personalizing it. Gosh I've been following the story for so freaking long and when Terri Schiavo dies, I'll bawl like a baby and wait for the politicians to jump on it, to point fingers and the ugliness will just get uglier.

[Scrooge McSam]

But, Neph, how much is enough?

It's been through state and federal court several kinds of ways.

These "so-called wishes" have been gone over and accepted in court. What about them is "so-called"?

The things that are being said were being said when all this rumbled it's way through the courts. They were rejected.

And after that whole long painful process, are we now to draw guns?

One brother waging his war internationally, the other waging his at home and all of us just watching.

I am sick to my stomach

[wendybeth]

Really, both sides (political) are behaving in a disgusting manner. I think I am almost more sickened by their activities than I am by the actual 'event'. Somehow this got morphed into an abortion rights issue, and it's inappropriate, to say the least. I stand by my feelings on the matter- I don't trust the husband, I abhor the manner of her death and I question all the experts who can't even agree if she is suffering or not, and I think the whole situation is a tragedy. I wish someone had just suffocated her. She really will be better off away from this messed up world.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Scrooge McSam

But, Neph, how much is enough?

It's been through state and federal court several kinds of ways.

These "so-called wishes" have been gone over and accepted in court. What about them is "so-called"?

The things that are being said were being said when all this rumbled it's way through the courts. They were rejected.

And after that whole long painful process, are we now to draw guns?

One brother waging his war internationally, the other waging his at home and all of us just watching.

I am sick to my stomach

According to most accounts he did not even start to care about her "wishes" until the insurance money ran out and an insurance policy paid on her death became the prize. All I am saying is that it is naive to assume that this man IS in fact acting in a loving fashion and carrying out her wishes. You and I do NOT know the real truth to all of this- and I am with Wendybeth, the man is not to be trusted.

Bashing Bush (Gov. or Pres.) is just your side game, and it detracts from the core of the issue, IMO. I actually agree to some extent that the gov't should not have gotten so deeply involved, and yet I also see why they did-

[Scrooge McSam]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

All I am saying is that it is naive to assume that this man IS in fact acting in a loving fashion and carrying out her wishes.

Were I simply assuming, I would have to agree with you. I am basing my opinion on a situation that has been in court for over 10 years, discussed nine ways til Sunday and ruled on numerous times. If that's naive, then hell I'll wear that banner.

How many court rulings do you have in favor of the Schindlers and the Bushes?

How many was that again?

Originally Posted by Nephythys

You and I do NOT know the real truth to all of this- and I am with Wendybeth, the man is not to be trusted.

So it doesn't matter how many times the courts, both federal and state, have ruled, eh?

Seriously, why do you think the courts don't see or don't believe the evidence you see and believe? Are they on a mission to kill Terri, as Mrs. Schindler alleges in the news today about Judge Greer? Is the information just not getting to them for some reason?

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Bashing Bush (Gov. or Pres.) is just your side game, and it detracts from the core of the issue, IMO.

Of course, you know I disagree. I do not believe Pres. Bush would have gotten involved in this if not for trying to score a few political points for himself and Gov. Bush by stirring up the fundies. His position now is in direct opposition to his position on the Futile Care law in Texas he signed while Governor of Texas.

And do we have to discuss Gov. Bush's last attempt to circumvent the courts being ruled unconstitutional? And now he's talking about taking up arms in defying the court.

G H W Bush must be so proud of his boys

Originally Posted by Nephythys

I actually agree to some extent that the gov't should not have gotten so deeply involved, and yet I also see why they did-

Oh, so do I. So do I. And it has nothing to do with Terri Schiavo.

[sleepyjeff]

Since we all agree that Europe is the model to follow.........

"One of the more disturbing things about euthanasia in the Netherlands is that there seems to have developed a view among a significant minority of doctors that consent is not necessary to end a life provided that the quality of that life is below some subjective threshold. Almost 5 percent of people who died in the Netherlands in 1990, for example, were killed by doctors who never received explicit consent for their actions. Even more disturbing is that a 1997 study found that as many as 8 percent of infants who died in the Netherlands were killed by their doctors"

---Brian Carnell