Yes, we can.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

Did you feel the same way when we armed "our friends" Saddam and Bin Laden? Or is it only Clinton that chaps your hide? I assume so since your avatar is a picture of the guy that helped make that happen. Was Reagan wrong?

I've discussed this before.

International relationships change constantly. We gained our independence from the British and they are now our closest ally. We couldn't have won WWII without the Russians, but literally immediately after the end of the war they became out biggest adversary. Japan is one of our closest allies now afte being a part of the Axis powers. Biggest difference is that Clinton armed a current adversary with nukes.

So.....yes, Reagan did indeed help build Saddam up, but at the time that was necessary (primarily because of Carter's ineptitude regarding Iran). He also helped build up bin Laden in Afghanistan, but it was well necessary because of Soviet expansionism. Mistakes? Yes, of course, the most obvious being leaving a power vacuum in Afghanistan after the Soviets left (hmmm.....yet some want to do that in Iraq right now....hmm.....).

I have absolutely no problem looking at the world climate at a given point in time and making judgements about what was necessary to do at the time. Some things turn out horribly. Some things turn out wonderfully. Hind sight is, well, you know.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

But you are ignoring the fact that in the last example of poorly run and naive negotiations, North Korea ended up with nukes. Sorry, I'd rather not talk to a rogue state than have them end up a nuclear power. And they, in turn, were assisting Syria in building a nuke plant that Israel destroyed.

I do not consider myself to be pwned in the least.

And with the current example of poorly run and naive war, Iran has/is close to having nukes, and thousands of American soldiers are dead.

[Alex]

It's really too bad that engaging in discussion with the terrorists in Northern Ireland resulted in them gaining nuclear weapons.

Who knew that leprechauns pop like microwaved grapes when nuked? Sure, it made for funny YouTube videos but there was an underlying tinge of sadness.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by Alex

It's really too bad that engaging in discussion with the terrorists in Northern Ireland resulted in them gaining nuclear weapons.

Who knew that leprechauns pop like microwaved grapes when nuked? Sure, it made for funny YouTube videos but there was an underlying tinge of sadness.

Racking up the visual mojo- thanks for the laugh!


Oh, and Scaeagles- I'll take naive (is that your new word for the week?) over willfully ignorant any day.

[Gemini Cricket]

Everyone knows leprechauns are extinct...

[Alex]

Yes, because the Brits talked to the terrorists!

[Ghoulish Delight]

And speaking of North Korea, weren't they engaging in a whole lot of saber rattling a couple years ago, looking altogether like they wanted to provoke an attack? Didn't we initiate talks with them, with multi national cooperation? And haven't they since calmed the fvck down without the need to kill anybody?

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

And speaking of North Korea, weren't they engaging in a whole lot of saber rattling a couple years ago, looking altogether like they wanted to provoke an attack? Didn't we initiate talks with them, with multi national cooperation? And haven't they since calmed the fvck down without the need to kill anybody?

Who was it that was responsible for that? Well, that was China, as much as I hate to say that. They intervened because they did not want a nuclear exchange right next door. And that's what it would have become because of....you guessed it....naive negotiations by an administratin that wanted to appear to have success and therefore gave them a direct path to nuclear weapons. Should North Korea have used them, most likely on the South or Japan, there would have been a nuclear response.

I have no doubt that an equally naive Obama, wanting to appear to have a foreign policy success, would do something equally stupid sitting down with them.

Last thing the world needs is to allow Iran to get nukes, because Ahmahdinejad isn't nearly as reasonable as Kim Jong Il.

And while were at the whole Obama foreign policy, he is getting slimier by the day. McCain said that Obama wanted to have direct talks with Castro. In a debate last June, Obama answered a question and indeed said he would talk with them without condition. Well, in response to what McCain said, Obama became his usual self righteous...er...self and accused McCain of dirty politics because "I never said I wanted to normalize relations with Cuba". McCain didn't say that. He said the truth, and Obama is dodging it by changing what McCain said.

[€uroMeinke]

My hope is that whoever is President, doesn't take such a black and white stance on "negotiating" like people have argued here and treat each circumstance with consideration of the individual facts and act upon that instead.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

My hope is that whoever is President, doesn't take such a black and white stance on "negotiating" like people have argued here and treat each circumstance with consideration of the individual facts and act upon that instead.

Screw that... if they piss us off; nuke 'em!