Home schooling in CA

[wendybeth]

GD- just so you know: Here in Spokane School district 81, a child has to be at least two years behind to receive any remedial services. Attending public school is no guarantee that the needs will be identified in a timely manner, let alone addressed in the same.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Ciritical thinking is great and I agree should be the goal, but I believe that far too often bias comes in and when a student comes to a conclusion through critical thought that the teacher doesn't agree with....well, grades can suffer. Too often critical thought means thinking the way the teacher wants you to or coming to the same conclusion as the teacher. Indoctrination by government agencies is not a good thing.

Since government agencies are, at least theoretically, our proxies, it depends on what's being indoctrinated. Civics, civility, patriotism are commonly indoctrinated in our schools.

As to the larger point, clearly, students should not be punished for attempting to defend unpopular positions in a persuasive manner. What is the home schooling alternative that you envision? More openminded approaches to analytical writing or simply indoctrination of different ideas?

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

For the record, NCLB was written by big time liberal Ted Kennedy. Many people try to pin this on Bush, and this is what happens when trying to reach across the aisle. Anyway.....

Yes, I know. I knew this when it was passed, and I didn't like it back then, either. Just because someone is liberal doesn't mean they don't look critically at other liberals. Bush, as president, is the bottom line, though - and if a liberal president had passed it, I would have blamed them, too.

I don't have children so I'm a bit hesitant to really weigh in on home schooling, since I'm not actually in the thick of the reality. Or, at least, I'm not interested in absolutes because, not having a child, I can't really fully imagine what it's like.

I know that the public system is simply not right for every child, so I have no problems with people taking matters into their own hands. At the same time, I do think that the well-roundedness is very important - as is learning to cooperate with children other than your relatives, and learning to work with adults other than your parents. If I were to put my children into home-schooling, I imagine I'd want to use a co-op with many other children taught by many other parents, and I suspect I'd want them to learn all of the standard subjects taught in school, as well as the creative ones that have been all but eliminated.

For kids that work OK within the provided system, I've really appreciated what my sister has done with them outside of school - their homework period has served as a sort of home-schooling session, building on what they've learned at school (teaching higher-level and real-life applications.) I think this gives kids the best of both education processes.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

I know that the public system is simply not right for every child, so I have no problems with people taking matters into their own hands. At the same time, I do think that the well-roundedness is very important - as is learning to cooperate with children other than your relatives, and learning to work with adults other than your parents. If I were to put my children into home-schooling, I imagine I'd want to use a co-op with many other children taught by many other parents, and I suspect I'd want them to learn all of the standard subjects taught in school, as well as the creative ones that have been all but eliminated.

I would go a bit farther and say that while most kids survive the public school system, less than half truly thrive under it. Don't get me wrong, I certainly want my kids to have a well rounded education. My statement earlier was that as far as the state is concerned, the only purpose of education, public or otherwise, is to ensure productive citizens.

My experience with homeschool and socialization is that it's much easier to provide a homeschooled kid with a well rounded social life. There are so many groups that do fun things and the kids have friends of all ages. The older teach the younger social skills much more quickly than one would learn when segregated by age.

As far as learning all the standard subjects taught in schools...I want this to a point. I think there is something to be said for knowing what everybody else knows. But there is so much knowledge in the world that you can't be well rounded in every subject known to man. I'm totally ok if my kid is four years ahead in biology and two years behind in math. At some point extra focus on math might be needed to get into college in this hypothetical example, but my point is that as long as my kids have a diverse educational offering and an eagerness to learn then I'm pretty happy. I think that we sacrifice something in order to churn out people that know exactly the same stuff. There is something to be said for really digging into something you are interested in. Yes, you want to cover the basics of other stuff as well, but not to the exclusiong of speciality.

[scaeagles]

Good question, Strangler.

Being that teaching often includes value judgements of events or facts themselves, it seems to be the right of parents to protect their children from value indoctrination that they would deem as harmful. Often times NOT including value judgements is a statement in and of itself. These are not the children of the state, they are minors in the care of their parents.

So yes, I agree that indoctrination through opinions and methodologies and body language or tone of voice or whatever will take place when there is education. If I object to the values my child is picking up in the government schools I should have the right to pull that child out and teach that child myself.

[Morrigoon]

I think I agree with requiring a college degree, but a teaching certificate might be a bit much (odd as that seems). I could see requiring a one-semester course in teaching that the parent can do before, or concurrent to, starting to teach their child.

[scaeagles]

I don't understand all the methodology stuff with teaching. Seriously. Some trained teacher is supposed to understand better than I do how my child learns the best when I've been raising my child and to the teacher my kid is just one of 25-30 kids who may learn in a completeyl different fashion.

Let alone the one on one time (or if not one on one, a better teacher-student ratio is going to exist in the home without a doubt).

[wendybeth]

All I have to do is look at my kid, and I can tell by her expression if she is 'getting' the material being taught. If not, I simply re-state it in terms that I think she will understand. This is not something one can expect a teacher to do when they have so many other students to deal with at the same time. However, with Deaf/Hard of Hearing students, this is something that has to be done to ensure they get the same information hearing students get. Since the school district was unwilling to hire an oral facilitator, we had no choice but to pull her out and teach one-on-one. In our case, the District knows what they need to do to give my child what the law requires- they were simply unwilling to do it. I know I am not the only example of the public school system's failure to do what the laws of the land require. I could have sued, but I have neither the time or the money to do so. Homeschooling was our only answer, as it is for thousands of others. Yes, it can be done badly, but so can public school.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I don't understand all the methodology stuff with teaching. Seriously. Some trained teacher is supposed to understand better than I do how my child learns the best when I've been raising my child and to the teacher my kid is just one of 25-30 kids who may learn in a completeyl different fashion.

A good teacher, absolutely. Would you say the same of doctors?

By most accounts, I'm a math genius. I knew more about calculus than my calculus teacher did before I began taking the class. And yet I have tried countless times to tutor people on basic algebra...and have failed miserably. I am a terrible teacher, I don't understand it at all. It's a skilled occupation. No amount of restating it until they get it has ever done me any good. I simply do not possess the skill of passing my knowledge on.

Traci - would your parents have made good homeschool parents? Nevermind, I think know the answer to that based on what you've said about your family. Odds are, many of the same qualities that would have made them poor homeschool teachers are the same that lead you to feel unserved by your education. There is a HUGE misconception that the goal of public education is to dump your kids and have them magically absorb knowledge. The reality is that any education system can do no more nor less than provide a framework in which to learn. Success relies on active (and productive) participation by the student in the learning process and by the parent in the student's learning process. I'm sure Traci and Wendy and others are in a better position to confirm this, but my suspicion is that a good chunk the homeschool community are people with parents that didn't do much to reinforce good learning while they were in public school and therefore have a bad impression of it.

And Wendy, like I said before, no one is arguing that there isn't a place for homeschooling. At least, I'm not. No system can fit everyone's needs and homeschooling is absolutely the right choice for some. All I'm saying is that not allowing for some level of accountability is not a workable option. While it may be true that the majority of the 200,000 homeschool students are doing just fine, even a small percentage of 200,000 is too many kids getting left behind (to coin a phrase) or worse as in the case that lead to this ruling.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

While it may be true that the majority of the 200,000 homeschool students are doing just fine, even a small percentage of 200,000 is too many kids getting left behind (to coin a phrase) or worse as in the case that lead to this ruling.

This is based on the premise that public education does better. I do not support that premise.