The Dark Knight - [spoilers ahead, ye be warned]

[Bornieo: Fully Loaded]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Oh yeah, forgot about that. It's not even realistic vs. fantastic to me, but the fact that it was so blatantly recognizable as Chicago bugged me. It brings to mind the complaints about Transformers using recognizable LA locations. Seeing the river and the Board of Trade building really made it hard for me to think of it as Gotham.

Even when other incarnations have been blatant about Gotham=New York, they've never actually used NY landmarks.

The recognizable locations bothered me a bit as well - but not a huge amount. I do like the Burton Gotham City best. The "History" of Gotham City is kind of scattered because of the 60 + year history. Gotham was never really ment to be New York but has many elements. Metropolis, since Superman and Batman are in teh same "universe," is New York City. Gotham City was always across the bay from Metropolis and is kind of positioned where New Jersey would be.

Just fyi.

[Alex]

No, you're [BTD] not the only one. But then we're not the only ones who did.

And when I say "pro-Bush" I don't mean to say the movie intentionally sets out to redeem the actions of Bush but that in exploring the themes of how society responds to terrorism (and seeing echoes of 9/11 in the movie is very common, at least among film critics) the results shown in this movie have the side effect of essentially mirroring many of the policy decisions made by the Bush administration around secrecy, forging ahead despite public disapproval, illegality justified by the nature of the threat, etc.

It is quite possible that ideas of 9/11 or George Bush never entered into the heads of those making the movie. But Isaac Asimov used to tell a story about attending a lecture where the speaker was going on about some hidden meaning in one of his books. At the end Asimov spoke up and said he'd never even considered such things let alone intended them to be in the story. The response from the lecturer was essentially that just because he wrote the story didn't necessarily give him any great insight into its meaning. Asimov agreed with that.

In my thinking over the weekend I also came to the idea that rather than fitting in with superhero movies, The Dark Knight might actually be better paired with No Country for Old Men. Where the latter is in many ways an exploration of the individual's response when confronted with evil, The Dark Knight focuses on the macro of society's response.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Alex

The Dark Knight might actually be better paired with No Country for Old Men. Where the latter is in many ways an exploration of the individual's response when confronted with evil, The Dark Knight focuses on the macro of society's response.

And of course, villians in both films decide the life-or-death fate of victims by coin toss.



mousepod, I don't hate the Gotham of Batman Begins. I just found the more realistic setting and more realistic actions (on the surface*) of the villain a refreshing change for a series that's supposed to be the "gritty" version of Batman. I enjoyed the slightly fantastic Gotham of Batman Begins, but I prefer Burton's fantasy Gotham to that. They're all good, though. And I just like it when a sequel takes on a different tone, rather than simply trying to replicate.







* I liked that Joker didn't have henchmen this time around ... but how did he manage to plant all those bombs everywhere all by himself?

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

And of course, villians in both films decide the life-or-death fate of victims by coin toss.



mousepod, I don't hate the Gotham of Batman Begins. I just found the more realistic setting and more realistic actions (on the surface*) of the villain a refreshing change for a series that's supposed to be the "gritty" version of Batman. I enjoyed the slightly fantastic Gotham of Batman Begins, but I prefer Burton's fantasy Gotham to that. They're all good, though. And I just like it when a sequel takes on a different tone, rather than simply trying to replicate.







* I liked that Joker didn't have henchmen this time around ... but how did he manage to plant all those bombs everywhere all by himself?

He did have henchmen.

The guys who brought in his "body" -
He told the guys he had room in his "organization"
All the clowns that he kept using

He had loads of henchmen. Disposable- but plenty.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

And of course, villians in both films decide the life-or-death fate of victims by coin toss.

Dur. I can't believe that once I thought of No Country I didn't immediately think of that.

Freddy vs. Jason
Alien vs. Predator
Cigurgh vs. Joker

[Gemini Cricket]

Another reason why I enjoyed Ledger's performance was that it was a major leap from Ennis Del Mar. Two totally different people.
(Yes, both had the hots for a Gyllenhaal but that's about it.)
I like it when actors can pull that off. Johnny Depp is another one who can do that successfully.

Maybe I wasn't paying attention or something but how did the Joker get another knife to escape from the interrogation room? Was it his From Russia with Love shoe knife?

[scaeagles]

I think it was a shard of glass from a broken window. Could see them on the ledge behind him when he was cuffed and sitting on the ground.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I think it was a shard of glass from a broken window. Could see them on the ledge behind him when he was cuffed and sitting on the ground.

Got it. That bit of editing was weird. Suddenly he and the cop are out of the cell and in the next room.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Got it. That bit of editing was weird. Suddenly he and the cop are out of the cell and in the next room.

Actually, I thought it was a great piece of foreshadowing. I saw the shards of glass there and knew he would be using them to get away.

However, I agree with ISM regarding ballroom hostage situation.

[innerSpaceman]

The editing in the film sucked.


Did anyone know what was going on in the fight scene with all the copy-cat Batmen? WTF?

The other fight scenes were no better, but at least didn't have 8 men in Batsuits.



I've mentioned it before, but cutting away to the next day while the Joker still has hostages in a ballroom with his intended murder victim simply hiding in a closet was a retarded editorial choice.