Frank Miller's Sin City (the movie)

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Comic books are created by artists and writers who are well aware that they are working within a medium that is considered to be outsider art and marginal. I suppose that there is an aura of coolness one might effect as a result of being left of center, or even an aura of superiority that may come from feeling like you *get* something that other people just don’t *get*, and maybe you label those people *uncool* and yourself *cool*. I don’t know. I don’t get that from the majority of the books, I read. They’re just people wanting to tell a story with words and pictures. There are certainly contain cool elements, and some are even about being cool, I think it’s an element of the subject matter, and not just a bunch of “fanboys” getting each other off. Many of the writers and artists are actually intellectuals. Some are in it just to entertain. Not so different from the average painter, writer, and so forth, I’d imagine. Without doubt, some of the most daring fiction comes out of this medium, as a result of being marginalized, particularly the writing. There are certainly comic books I'm not a huge fan of, and certain genres within the medium I prefer over others, but to say "I've read comic books that didn't seem to terribly pleased with their own coolness" is to imply that most do, and that's just not the case. Frankly, I don't think you've read enough of them to make such a generalization. I realize I sound defensive, but I think comic books are an exceptional art form, and with all works of art, there's some good, some bad. You’re also approaching them with an air of condescension in this post that’s been absent during in person conversations we’ve had, so I’m a bit thrown.

Your opinion of the movie is completely valid. Or finding it puzzling because you're not familiar with the source material is also a very valid criticism. I don't know how I would have felt about the movie if I wasn't familiar with the source material, though I'm guessing I would still have liked it for a variety of reasons. The movie’s not for you. The movie’s for me. Whaddeva.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

You’re also approaching them with an air of condescension in this post that’s been absent during in person conversations we’ve had, so I’m a bit thrown.

I didn't mean to condescend, especially because I don't feel condescension towards comic book as genre. I wasn't trying to imply that I don't think the genre is an art form or valid fiction. It certainly is.

What I was trying to say is that if I'm supposed to accept that a Noir-inspired film is bloated and tacky *because* it's derived from a comic book, then I don't like what that says about comic books. But I went on to say (in what seems to have been a garbled way) that I'd read comic books that didn't seem bloated or tacky at all. And just to clarify, I haven't come across a one that seemed very intent on its coolness. If it was cool, it just was. That part of my statement wasn't a slam against all comic books, but an attempted acknowledgement that, in fact, circlejerkery *isn't* the kind of thing I note in the comic books I've read.

But something about Rodriguez's film rubbed me the wrong way. It *did* seem intent on its coolness. It came across as very self-admiring-- it's Rodriguez and Miller's fanboy-on-fanboy action that bothers me, not the wrighting of graphic art and novels in general. If I participated in Sin City geekery, I may not have noted it within this film.

But I am not a part of that geekery. I don't enjoy gratuitous violence. What I like about the aged cheddar you get in a Noir all comes from cleverness-- of the characters, of the dialogue, of the way it is filmed. What I saw in Sin City didn't seem like cleverness. Rather, a depiction of brute and sex-as-commodity. Which is well and good if that kind of thing interests you.

But that's not the kind of thing that interests me... so watching that brand of geekery celebrated left me cold.

I *so* did not mean to belittle the comic book genre. I just didn't enjoy this particular sector of it.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by LSPoorEeyorick

What I was trying to say is that if I'm supposed to accept that a Noir-inspired film is bloated and tacky *because* it's derived from a comic book, then I don't like what that says about comic books.

And I didn't mean to imply that all comic books are bloated and tacky. It's a matter of perspective. It'd be like a horror fan going to see Evil Dead 2. If you're expecting classic horror, it's going to seem like the cheesiest, lamest thing on the planet. But if you know going in that what it really is is a slapstick movie done in the style of a classic horror flick, then you know it succeeded greatly.