All About McCain

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Regardles of that, I am not one for abandoning commitments. We can debate the price being paid, but in the long run, I believe the price is higher should we stop (a great example over the long term is Reagan and Afghnaistan after the Soviets pulled out).

I don't disagree. And I don't think Obama disagrees, though there's some disagreement with the best method to succeed. I have never been for a summary troop draw down. I AM in favor of setting more concrete goals and forcing the Iraqi government to stand up and take care of its own sh*t. I believe Obama will do that. Suggesting that Obama wants to just abandon Iraq with no plan at all is as absurd as suggesting he wants to sit down and have tea with Ahmedinejad. It's a grossly distorted interpretation of his position. All he wants is to stop playing nanny in Iraq and start putting the responsibility on Iraqis to take control of their own country.

No. You have to spend what it takes to get the job done. This is not intended to get tinto a discussion as to if we should be there or not - that has been discussed ad infinitum here. It is simply that you have to finish what you start.

Again, I do not fundamentally disagree. But as much as you don't want it to be about whether we should be there or not, that IS a crux, if not the crux, of the discussion. Because to me the question is, who has the clarity of judgment to make the right decisions going forward, whether it be on how to finish the job we stumbled blindly into, or whether to wage more war elsewhere. And I believe Obama to possess better judgment.

You can point to the surge all you want. There is no proof that the surge is the only reason things have improved there, or that they wouldn't improved without the surge. But hey, I'll give the administration that one, let's say the surge was the difference maker. That's one good decision after boatloads of awful ones, and the first time that Bush actually decided to listen to the generals on the ground. And it's one that's about controlling a specific situation in the short term. It's not remotely on the same scale as deciding whether to invade another country and understanding the large scale ramifications. I believe Obama (and his advisors) have better judgment on that scale. And perhaps Obama doesn't have the chops for handling the smaller scale day-to-day combat decisions (as if Bush does), but I expect him to defer to those that do. For instance, Patreus's replacement, Odierno, who has already said he expects to start calling for significant troop reductions of the next year, that weak, unpatriotic bastard.

A strong military is important. However, I do not think that throwing money down the military drain, using force to shove democracy down the world's throat, and threatening countries with invasion are signs of a strong military.