Required Community Service?

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by tracilicious

Drop all assistance? Jesus, no. My loans and grants pay for all my tuition and books and then extra that helps me live while I'm in school. There isn't a tuition rate that would be affordable to me right now. Thank god for assistance programs!!!!

I would think tuition rates would drop like a rock if no "free" money were available to these colleges.

Originally Posted by flippyshark

But I have absolutely no faith in the unregulated free market concept. It seems to my admittedly naive mind that we've already tried that, and it hasn't worked.

When have we tried it?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Sorry sleepy, but right now, the words "free market" aren't exactly friendly ones. Yeah, I know the econ crisis is a different story from college tuition rates, but still.

Ok, if we're talking about trading public service for tuition dollars, meh. I was thinking more of an actually unpaid service to the community. Paying students is whole other thing and shouldn't bear the words "community service".

[BarTopDancer]

California colleges are subsidized by the state for residents. When Davis cut the budget for the community college system tuition went up. Yes, it was still cheaper than a 4-year school but tuition still jumped 50%. When Schwarzenegger funded the schools again tuition dropped. Other states have "pre-pay" programs where you can pay current rates for tuition when a child is born.

Many financial aid programs are available besides loans. I have an issue attaching required community service on student loans, since they have to be repaid. I don't have an issue attaching community service requirements to Pell or other grants. However, these grants have to be repaid if the student doesn't complete the semester.

After my really long experience, and subsequent intimate knowledge of financial aid systems, the entire program needs to be redone.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Sorry sleepy, but right now, the words "free market" aren't exactly friendly ones. Yeah, I know the econ crisis is a different story from college tuition rates, but still.

Actually, the econ crisis has government intervention to blame....a free market would have self corrected before it got so bad.

Funny you should mention that though.....part of the reason College tuition is so high is students are encouraged to amass huge amounts of debt and to not really worry about price tags.

As we have clearly seen in the health care industry, when consumers are not confronted with the full costs of things.....things cost a lot more than they should.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

Actually, the econ crisis has government intervention to blame....a free market would have self corrected before it got so bad.

My last derail in this thread. Alan Greenspan disagrees with you.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

Funny you should mention that though.....part of the reason College tuition is so high is students are encouraged to amass huge amounts of debt and to not really worry about price tags.

I completely disagree. I don't know when you last attempted to secure student loans, but students are made completely aware exactly how much they are taking out and how much it will be to repay. You cannot get your loans without going through this class and acknowledging that you understand.

Credit card companies are guiltier of encouraging students to amass huge amounts of debt and not worrying about their final payoff amounts.

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

My last derail in this thread. Alan Greenspan disagrees with you.

Fair enough, however I've always been lukewarm to the former Fed Chairman and don't consider him exactly an unconcerned observer in all of this.

My views are more in line with this guy:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/col...ams110508.php3

You can decide whether we have in an unregulated laissez-faire economy. There are 15 cabinet departments, nine of which control various aspects of the U.S. economy. They are the Departments of: Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, Health and Human Services, Education, Energy, Labor, Agriculture, Commerce, and Interior. In addition, there is the alphabet soup cluster of federal agencies such as: the IRS, the FRB and FDIC, the EPA, FDA, SEC, CFTC, NLRB, FTC, FCC, FERC, FEMA, FAA, CAA, INS, OHSA, CPSC, NHTSA, EEOC, BATF, DEA, NIH, and NASA.


Here's my question to you: Can one be sane and at the same time hold that ours is an unregulated laissez-faire economy? Better yet, tell me what a businessman, or for that matter you, can do that does not involve some kind of government regulation. A businessman must seek government approval for the minutest detail of his operation or face the wrath of some government agency, whether it's at the federal, state or local level. Just about everything we buy or use has some kind of government dictate involved whether it's package labeling, how many gallons of water to flush toilets or what pharmaceuticals can be prescribed. You say, "Williams, there's a reason for this government control." Yes, there's a reason for everything but that does not change the fact that there is massive government control over our economy.

When businesses make unwise decisions that lead to bankruptcy, their assets are sold off to someone else who might be able to put them to wiser use. Government bailouts give businesses a reprieve that the market wouldn't give them. Bailouts have at least two effects. They permit continued unwise use of resources and it creates what economists call moral hazard, the expectation of future bailouts and others hopping on the bailout wagon.


The blame for our current financial mess rests with government, with the major player being the Federal Reserve Board keeping interest rates artificially low and the congressional and White House market interference in the name of more home ownership. In the clamor for more regulation over our financial institutions, has anybody bothered to ask whether people in government know what they're doing?

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

I completely disagree. I don't know when you last attempted to secure student loans, but students are made completely aware exactly how much they are taking out and how much it will be to repay. You cannot get your loans without going through this class and acknowledging that you understand.

Credit card companies are guiltier of encouraging students to amass huge amounts of debt and not worrying about their final payoff amounts.

If you say so...

I had a $3,000 scholarship....Paid cash for the rest and graduated with no loans to repay

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

If you say so...

I had a $3,000 scholarship....Paid cash for the rest and graduated with no loans to repay

Good for you. Costs have increased and not all of us are as fortunate as you to be able to pull that off.

But I directly disputed your claim that students are encouraged to take on huge debt without understanding what they were taking on. I think since you didn't need to take out loans it appears you don't have first hand expereince, recent or otherwise to base your statements on...

[sleepyjeff]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

But I directly disputed your claim that students are encouraged to take on huge debt without understanding what they were taking on. I think since you didn't need to take out loans it appears you don't have first hand expereince, recent or otherwise to base your statements on...

Nope, no first hand experience in that regard. Anecdotally, I must defer to you on this one