Eco-guilt

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Stan4dSteph

Too funny.

Agreed.


I missed the whole almond cleaner part for some reason. Also, too funny.

Originally Posted by RStar

I hear tell that electronic waist like old computers go to some third world country where they process them in a manner that pollutes the environment in ways that wouldn't happen in America.

This is true, and now when you recycle your haz waste you're supposed to ask where it's processed. Sometimes those third world countries just have landfills of the stuff.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by RStar

Oh, China. I knew it was in the Orient. So recycled paper saves trees, but increases carbon output.

Originally Posted by Jazzman

Well, since trees scrub carbon from the air, and carbon dioxide isn't actually a pollutant, then your "equation" is actually pretty beneficial to ol' Mother Gaia.

Okay, I know I have said this before, so apologies to all who are reading this for the 83rd time.

But the paper made here in the US and in Canada (and many other responsible countries) is made from trees grown much like crops specifically for the purpose of making paper. The trees are scientifically engineered for speedy growth and greater pulp yield. In these managed forests, more trees are actually planted each year then are cut down.

Originally Posted by Jazzman

Great, big, humongous (and not supported by any scientific evidence) "if" there.

Originally Posted by Stan4dSteph

Too funny.

Funny, but true.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by RStar

I hear tell that electronic waist like old computers go to some third world country where they process them in a manner that pollutes the environment in ways that wouldn't happen in America.

Reminds me of this old photo I have (no, I didn't take it):

[RStar]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Okay, I know I have said this before, so apologies to all who are reading this for the 83rd time.

But the paper made here in the US and in Canada (and many other responsible countries) is made from trees grown much like crops specifically for the purpose of making paper. The trees are scientifically engineered for speedy growth and greater pulp yield. In these managed forests, more trees are actually planted each year then are cut down.

Interesting. So the paper industry helps clean the air by being responsible for planting trees. Cool.

And no, I haven't read that before- so no apology needed.

So, in that case, I wonder if it is possible that the recycling of paper is actually worse for the planet? There is the energy use, water pollution, and transportation. Have there been studies about this kind of thing?

[Alex]

Yes, lots. They're generally easy to find.

Here's an overview of the research on recycling paper (note, not direct cite to studies). Recycling paper better than making new paper from newly harvest trees. Recycling paper not so clearly better than incinerating it for energy.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Alex

Here's an overview of the research on recycling paper (note, not direct cite to studies).

Just one small note on something in the article:

They also point out, correctly, that making virgin paper also involves a host of dodgy chemicals, particularly the bleach used to whiten the end product.

Those same chemicals (and more), ESPECIALLY the bleach, are used in the production of recycled paper (with the exception of the paragraph below).

One major difference not differentiated (even by me - my bad) is that the best use of recycled paper is in brown paper products: shopping bags, cardboard, etc. Where it is not good to use is for common office papers, printing papers, etc - basically where a white paper is needed.

[Drince88]

Yea, bleaching chemicals are not good on the environment, and recycled paper really is only good for 'brown' products. Though the EPA has done quite a bit of work in the last 10 years or so on really looking at the entire waste stream of the chemicals - to the point that the air regulations have wastewater limits.

[RStar]

Thanks Alex! I didn't have the time to look it up myself....

I have noticed that a lot of the recycled paper products out there are the cardboard boxes.

[Stan4dSteph]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Funny, but true.

Oh please. Get real. Not supported by ANY EVIDENCE? What a load of sh!t. Get your head out of the sand.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Stan4dSteph

Oh please. Get real. Not supported by ANY EVIDENCE? What a load of sh!t. Get your head out of the sand.

Well, there is actually a fair amount of scientific evidence that DOES exist that the earth's temperature rises and falls all on its own. Its been doing that for millions of years (which obviously means the earth is capable of doing it without the need for internal combustion engines or chlorofluorocarbons).

Without going into it too much, I found links here, here, and here.

Yes, there are those who disagree. I believe that the majority of the change is a result of natural occurrences.

We certainly aren't helping things at all and we SHOULD be doing what we can to reduce our collective carbon footprint (or whatever the label du jour is), but it isn't the situation that Al Gore wants everyone to believe.