Obama

[innerSpaceman]

How many times does Alex have to post what the legal definition of disorderly conduct is in Massachusetts?

He's the only one here who routinely researches things, so when he says what it is in Massachusetts, I believe he looked it up.


The guy wasn't charged with disturbing the peace. He was charged with disorderly conduct, a crime he was not guilty of, nor reasonably suspected of.



And not my business, but this no longer has anything whatsoever to do wtih Obama.

[Strangler Lewis]

Well, okay.

Obama should not have backed down.

Bush would not have backed down. He would have checked his gut, shot from the hip, stuck to his guns even when proven wrong (or wrongish), and his supporters would have admired him for it. Sadly, Obama briefly forgot that part of his mandate consists of being the least angry black man in America.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

yelling etc which is still disturbing the peace, disorderly conduct

You said this before, but per Massachusetts law the behavior we all seem to agree happened is not disorderly conduct in the criminal sense (and thus the charges being dropped). Being obnoxious to a police officer is not criminal disorderly conduct. Refusing to provide identification when asked is not against the law. Refusing to come out of your own home when asked is not against the law. Calling police officers names is not against the law.

They're all very, very annoying for a police officer to have to deal with. But that also is not against the law.

Sure, Gates overreacting and being a douche (if he was -- they both claim the other one was overreacting and only one of those is obviously true) may raise suspicions that something else must be going on. But that also is not against the law and is not itself justification for an arrest.

Even in the most obnoxious version of Gates behavior nothing remotely illegal has been offered up to justify an arrest beyond "well, that's what happens when you annoy a cop."

[Alex]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

He's the only one here who routinely researches things, so when he says what it is in Massachusetts, I believe he looked it up.

Here's a recap of the law on disorderly conduct in Massachusetts from conservative law blog The Volokh Conspiracy (pretty much everything I've found give the same analysis but I figured I'd link to a group most likely to bend towards the police).

Of note that it has been rejected by the state supreme court that simply being loud and verbally abusive is not sufficient on free speech grounds. And it has been ruled several times by the state supreme court that lacking threats of violence simply shouting at the police and calling them names is not disorderly conduct.

[Gemini Cricket]

No, I hear what everyone is saying. I just think that the cop did the right thing. He erred on the side of caution.

[scaeagles]

OK...I can perhaps see, based upon that definition of Massachusetts disorderly conduct, that this guy should not have hauled him away.

However, I do not believe it was racially motivated in anyway.

And GC, I wonder, based on your post, what would happen if, say, he was so wound up he ended up harming himself or someone else. Granted, there is nothing to say in this situation he would have. But if he had not erred on the side of caution and something had happened, there would be cries of him not caring enough about an elderly black man to help him.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Nor did Obama.

[scaeagles]

I didn't say the guy was stupid, though....Obama did. I agree with GC that he erred on the side off caution. Stupid would have been to beat the hell out of the man or engage him in some form of shouting match.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

No, I hear what everyone is saying. I just think that the cop did the right thing. He erred on the side of caution.

How is making an error the right thing?



And just what caution might you be referring to?




And yes, scaeagles, handcuffs are always a welcome assistance to an elderly black man.



You guys are really, really stretching.

[Gemini Cricket]

I think it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of thing. Which is why I don't think the officer should be disciplined harshly.

My problem with Obama's comment was stated in the comment itself. He said he didn't see all of the facts and yet he said the cop acted stupidly. Hey, I'm guilty of doing that all the time, but I'm just an internet mischief-maker and not the president.