International

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Alex

You mean we don't already know what it means when that happens? To not define one religion above all others is the relatively novel (and historically recent) option.

Or do you mean that Jews would do something unique in this regard?

I mean that in the past there have been motions by Israel to work towards peace, in one way or another. I, like many other Jews in America was hopeful that it could be achieved.

A religious based state est. 1948 is something unique in that it only came to be in the 20th century and out of world guilt over the worst intolerance ever committed. It is nice to believe that this means that these wronged Jews would set up their new State to be peaceful and tolerant towards others, even as they embraced the obvious Jewishness of the concept of Israel.

My knowledge of Israeli history is by no means absolute but I have a basic concept that it tried to accommodate the Palestinian contingent to some degree for quite a while. Yes, there have always been clashes, with faults on both sides.

I can't say that there was a specific turning point, but the wall was a big deal for me, though I'm sure it had already crossed the line before then.

My current belief is that it was only a matter of time before things got down to the root of it. "Jewish State" means all others are second class citizens.
"Second class citizens" means that these people will never be represented by this gov't and their only recourse is to fight for their own gov't. (There have been Christian communities inside Israel forever, but it seems that with the greater threat of Islam we're still buddies, no prob.)

There is no way to have an Israel and NOT proclaim it a Jewish state. It's kind of the point. There are consequences to this.

It's a really sad state of affairs that the people of Israel can't see this basic truth and allow them the representation they deserve as human beings.

ETA - this is a really quick summary and I'm sure it makes no sense.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

I mean that in the past there have been motions by Israel to work towards peace, in one way or another. I, like many other Jews in America was hopeful that it could be achieved.

Ok, I minunderstood what you said I guess. If you meant that finally Israel will act like it is a religious state that's one thing but when you said

and we all find out what it REALLY means when a country defines itself as recognizing one religion above all others.

I thought you were talking bigger than Israel and many countries have set themselves up recognizing one religion above all others (such as, for the most part, all of Israel's neighbors but also most of the world at one point or another).

What you meant is clear now. I was just reading the emphasis on the wrong words in the sentence.