Winter Olympics 2010

[blueerica]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

Not being a golf fan, I've always wondered why it wasn't. It certainly seems to have a lot going for it. A long history, Large international following, TV friendly....

I like it on TV only when I'm looking to take a nap.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Like I said, I see the validity of calling ice dancing a sport. But it's still a sport in a category that a) doesn't interest me and b) doesn't fit with my perception of Olympics. Yes, it involves physical prowess and technical skill, but in my opinion ice dancing (and rhythmic gymnastics, and synchronized swimming, and dressage, and even to some degree portions of gymnastics like floor routine) are too much about artistic and aesthetic components to fit the theme of athletic competition.

And honestly, in the long run, I think it hurts aesthetic sports/competitions to be included in the Olympics. At that level, the pressure of ensuring fair judging is huge. As a result, the artistry and subjectivity has to be regulated out. And what you end up with is gymnastic floor routines (and balance beam routines) with creepy antiseptic "dance" moves that are judged on their technical qualities. Gone from gymnastics is any sort of artistry or aesthetic. Figure skating is headed in that direction. It's a shame, but it's the inevitable result of the scrutiny an artistic discipline receives on the Olympic stage.

[Kevy Baby]

Personally, I think all events should use the same uniforms as the original Olympics.

[Not Afraid]

Personally, I like the aesthetic part of sports - I actually like that aspect more than sheer physical prowess. A ski jumper who not only jumps great distances but does so with style, grace and a great landing are a thrill. A figure skater who not only can preform the jumps under presser, but who weaves these jumps into a aesthetically pleasing routine.

Surya Bonaly is a perfect example of this. She was a fantastic jumper but in between her jumps she looked awkward and unprofessional on the ice. Her career foundered, she never got the high marks needed to be a serious contender and she is not able to have a successful professional career either.

You cannot take the aesthetics out of figure skating without hurting the sport. I can't imagine figure skating without music, choreography, theming, costumes, a story and aesthetic movement woven between required elements. It would become "how many consecutive quads or twizzles can so and so perform". Yawn.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

You cannot take the aesthetics out of figure skating without hurting the sport. I can't imagine figure skating without music, choreography, theming, costumes, a story and aesthetic movement woven between required elements. It would become "how many consecutive quads or twizzles can so and so perform". Yawn.

I agree, but that's exactly what's happening to it, it's exactly what's happened to gymnastics, and it's the inevitable result of being on the Olympic stage. Those things are the essence of the sport, but they conflict with the essence of the Olympics. Over time, the Olympics win out and drain the aesthetic from the sport. Who wants that?

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I agree, but that's exactly what's happening to it, it's exactly what's happened to gymnastics, and it's the inevitable result of being on the Olympic stage. Those things are the essence of the sport, but they conflict with the essence of the Olympics. Over time, the Olympics win out and drain the aesthetic from the sport. Who wants that?

The ISO set the rules for figure skating, not the IOC.

There have been changes in rules by the ISO in recent years - Ice Dancing does not allow lifts higher than the shoulder any longer. It has taken Ice Dancing down a notch, but it is still a beautiful sport to watch and the competition was fierce this year - more than it's been in a long time.

Here's my absolute favorite Ice Dancing pair from 1992 - the glory days of ice dancing.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

The ISOU set the rules for figure skating, not the IOC.

True, but the ISU makes changes in response to pressure from Olympic exposure to the sport. The ditching of the 6.0 system in favor of the current system (which now puts more emphasis on technical execution over artistic presentation) is a direct result of the Canadians losing in Salt Lake City in '02. When an aesthetic sport is put in the context of Olympic athletic competition, the expectations change.

I'm not disagreeing that there is merit to the sports, or that there are reasons to admire their participants or enjoy the competition. I just don't think they fit within the context of the Olympics, and I think it does a disservice to the sports to have them there.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

True, but the ISU makes changes in response to pressure from Olympic exposure to the sport. The ditching of the 6.0 system in favor of the current system (which now puts more emphasis on technical execution over artistic presentation) is a direct result of the Canadians losing in Salt Lake City in '02. When an aesthetic sport is put in the context of Olympic athletic competition, the expectations change.

There had been lots of discussion about changing the judging system many years before the 2002 Olympics. When I first started attending National and Worlds and hanging out with Olympic skaters, it was a hot topic of discussion (1992-95). There was no doubt that the ISU was heading for a change in judging rules. What the 2002 Olympics provided was proof of abuse of the judging system which enabled the ISU to push the changes forward.

I don't find figure skating to be a primarily aesthetic sport. It is incredibly physically demanding and requires great athleticism (try jumping, spinning or balancing another person yourself, then try it on a 1/8" blade!). It just also had an element of presentation and aesthetics that is not unheard of in other Olympic sports (Gymnastics, Diving, etc).

[Strangler Lewis]

If ski jumpers could go farther by flapping their arms like geese, they'd do it and be rewarded for it. The idea of what was a graceful landing or a stylistic sin would adjust accordingly.

I don't know if skating footwork is supposed to be athletic or aesthetic. Whatever it is, I find the "look at that footwork" sections to be impressive but boring. I also find that most routines rarely synch up well with the music the same way dancers on stage do, so I can imagine figure skating without music the same way most gymnastics is without music.

[BarTopDancer]

Let's GO HILLER! Shoot out between BEL and SUI. Elimination game.