Red-light cameras ordered capped in Minneapolis; declared unconstitutional

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by zapppop

Last year in January I stopped on yellow to avoid going through the red light and was rear ended by a huge truck & lost my car due to frame damage.

How is that redlight camera related? I stop at yellows all the time because that's what you're supposed to do. Despite popular belief, yellow does not mean "speed up to make it through". It means, "If you can stop now before the intersection, do it, if you can't stop, go on through." The dummy in the truck was probably following too closely and not paying attention. The camera didn't cause that.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by tracilicious

I'm not sure that I understand what red light cameras had to do with this.

It's the same issue I alluded to about red light cameras increasing accidents. People often either speed up in an attempt to clear the intersection or jam on the breaks for a yellow. Both can and do lead to an increase in accidents.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

It's the same issue I alluded to about red light cameras increasing accidents. People often either speed up in an attempt to clear the intersection or jam on the breaks for a yellow. Both can and do lead to an increase in accidents.

Or they cover their face as they go through the intersection.

[Isaac]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

How is that redlight camera related? I stop at yellows all the time because that's what you're supposed to do. Despite popular belief, yellow does not mean "speed up to make it through". It means, "If you can stop now before the intersection, do it, if you can't stop, go on through." The dummy in the truck was probably following too closely and not paying attention. The camera didn't cause that.

Even if he was following too closely I still wouldn't have stopped if the intersection did not have cameras. I know what yellow means but I still would have just gone through (w/o speeding up) rather than try to avoid getting a traffic fine. I thought if I try to avoid the traffic fine I'd do the right thing. Considering the money I lost on the car, the money I paid for a rental, and other fees & debts I acquired. I now question that decision.

Just for the record, it wasn't a quick slam on the brakes.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Sorry, but annecdotal evidence isn't enough to sway me. No more than me trying to sway you by claiming that a red light camera might have prevented my mother's near-fatal accident in which a nurse ran a redlight and broad-sided her on the driver's side. The fact that she walked away with nothing but seatbelt bruises and airbag burns was a miracle of luck as well as Buick engineering (how would you like to have been my father who drove up to that same intersection a few minutes later to see his wife's car a complete wreck in the middle of it?).

Such incidents prove nothing other than that the individuals at fault were driving unsafely.

I wonder, Moonliner, about the statistics you mention regarding increased accident rates...do they take into account injury/fatality rates? Accidents involving people running red lights are likely to be side-impact or head-on collisions, which generally carry significantly greater risk of major injury. I think a few extra bent rear bumpers is a fair trade, and in time, that anomally would likely correct itself as drivers learn to correctly approach yellow lights.

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Interesting. You therefore advocate obeying only the laws of society with which you agree?

That's exactly my position. Always has been. Why on earth would I ever obey laws that I don't agree with?


I makes my choices and I takes my chances.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Sorry, but annecdotal evidence isn't enough to sway me. No more than me trying to sway you by claiming that a red light camera might have prevented my mother's near-fatal accident in which a nurse ran a redlight and broad-sided her on the driver's side. The fact that she walked away with nothing but seatbelt bruises and airbag burns was a miracle of luck as well as Buick engineering (how would you like to have been my father who drove up to that same intersection a few minutes later to see his wife's car a complete wreck in the middle of it?).

Such incidents prove nothing other than that the individuals at fault were driving unsafely.

I wonder, Moonliner, about the statistics you mention regarding increased accident rates...do they take into account injury/fatality rates? Accidents involving people running red lights are likely to be side-impact or head-on collisions, which generally carry significantly greater risk of major injury. I think a few extra bent rear bumpers is a fair trade, and in time, that anomally would likely correct itself as drivers learn to correctly approach yellow lights.

Hard data? Sure thing... Deaths went up as well.

Washington Post "Injury and fatal crashes climbed 81 percent" (Be sure to read the ENTIRE article and not just the hogwash part put out by "city officials".)

Colorado Study

I could go on but you can google more for yourself if you would like...

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

... that anomally would likely correct itself as drivers learn to correctly approach yellow lights.

Anomally? I don't think you can count on that. How long have drivers had to "learn to correctly approach" stop lights? Over one hundred years and we still have daily accidents.

[Gemini Cricket]

If Boston had red-light cams, Massachusetts would be the richest state in the union.

[katiesue]

A couple of years ago there was a big bruhaha here about the cameras. Mostly steming fromt he fact that the outside contractor was profiting from them.

The Judge Ronald Styn in San Diego ruled that a public agency, not a private company, should be more in charge of the red light cameras. "The court sees no difference between a contingent fee to a private corporation and a contingent fee paid to an individual," Styn said.

This article is saying it cut down on accidents though -

The cameras have an upside, however. Statistics show that where cameras have gone up, crashes have gone down by 35 percent. "The judge said that there wasn't any problem with the system itself, with the cameras, how they work," said San Diego City Attorney Steven Hansen. "He said all that was fine. If there would have been city employees doing it, he would have let the evidence in."

http://www.calweb.com/kxtv10/news-st...RED-LIGHTS.htm

They took all of them out for a while but they're starting to come back. I don't have a problem with them but in one particular intersection near my house where they were installed, the intersection gets backed up as people slow to turn into a shopping center. You could enter the intersection on a green but get stuck and the the light would turn then flash you were caught.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by katiesue

You could enter the intersection on a green but get stuck and the the light would turn then flash you were caught.

And rightly so. You are never supopsed to enter an intersection unless you can get through it. If the light is green and the intersection is backed up, you're supposed to wait behind the line until you can get all the way through.