100,000 Protestors... Angry mobs of students...

[wendybeth]

Scaeagles, would you have contributed to his defense fund if it was the American flag he burned? Just curious.

Still, I agree that it's very unlikely he'll get more than a misdemeanor charge at the end of this.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Scaeagles, would you have contributed to his defense fund if it was the American flag he burned? Just curious.

It's a good question. The circumstances are such that I would say no.

As I stated earlier, when a country is conquered, the flag of the country that has done the conquering is hoisted in place of the conquered country. If the roles were reversed and and the hispanic student has burned the US flag, I would not support a charge of felony arson, but I would not contribute to the cause if such a charge was levied. I would figure the ACLU would have all the funding they needed to defend the kid. It is an issue of patriotism to me, clear and simple, and what I think is right. I can relate to the kid who burned the Mexican flag, so therefore I contributed (not a large amount, mind you. I did it primarily so the kid would see one more supporter of his cause).

I would suspect that should it have been a US flag that was burned, it would not have been politically correct to charge any crime. It would have been solely a free speech issue, though suspension may be warranted (as the kid who burned the Mexican flag rightfully received for a variety of reasons).

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

relate to the kid who burned the Mexican flag, so therefore I contributed (not a large amount, mind you. I did it primarily so the kid would see one more supporter of his cause).

What exactly is his cause? The support he's getting probably just makes him tell himself, "See! They hate Mexicans too."

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by tracilicious

What exactly is his cause? The support he's getting probably just makes him tell himself, "See! They hate Mexicans too."

His "cause", as I was putting it, is simply his legal defense.

I do not believe that burning a Mexican flag means that you hate Mexicans any more than burning an American flag means you hate Americans. It can mean that, but it is certainly not always the case. I don't even think if the kid started beating up the kid that did it would mean he hates Mexicans (I would not support him legally, though, should he have done that). You seem to be assuming he does hate Mexicans.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

While I don't agree with the severity of the charge, I can hardly be supportive of someone's goal to join the military if they - heat of the moment or not - see fit to burn another nation's flag.

I suppose if he was in another country and burned that country's flag I could agree with you. Running the flag of another country up the flagpole is very symbolic to that country conquering the other.

[Alex]

Unless they can show there was some substantial risk in when and where the flag was burned then I think it is primarily a free speech issue and should not be charged with theft at most; if he burned it in the bushes next to a wood building it is substantially different than if he did it in a large swath of pavement or concrete.

And that is true regardless of what country's flag is involved (statutory protection of the flag from desecration is one of the stupidest ideas ever thought). Though I suspect that if he had burned an American flag the school administrators would be more willing to view it as a free speech issue and righties would be more willing to view it as a felony (I have no idea about scaeagles specifically).

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Running the flag of another country up the flagpole is very symbolic to that country conquering the other.

We stole countries with the cunning use of flags.
~ Eddie Izzard on Britain

[Alex]

Kind of a side point. But in watching the various talking head shows for the last few sides I've seen a meme developing about the idea of actually building a wall along the entire (or a significant portion) of the U.S. Mexico border.

Now, I don't want to get into whether it is a good or bad idea to build such a wall (I'd oppose it) but over and over for the lasts week I've seen the opposition side say "building such a wall just can't be done; it's impossible." They aren't talking about politically but physically.

I've driven I-90 from Seattle to Chicago. I've driven I-10 from LA to Florida. I've taken a train that used tracks that cross the Rockies. If we can build an 8-lane superhighway that criss-crosses the nation why would building a wall be so damned difficult if that is was we decided we wanted to do?

There are plenty of good reasons to oppose such a thing but picking obviously stupid ones doesn't help the cause.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

While I don't agree with the severity of the charge, I can hardly be supportive of someone's goal to join the military if they - heat of the moment or not - see fit to burn another nation's flag.


Oh, I have no illusions it's not the miscreant, xenophobic haters who are attracted to military service, but I have no qualms about eliminating their eligibility - one a a time, if necessary.

to that. It sounds like all the students involved were acting like idiots. I suspect they are being more severe with him because he was JROTC. They most likely want to send the message that he isn't representative of the group. Though, when I was in high school, JROTC was populated with so many a-holes that none of this surprised me at all.

A word about Apache Junction: I went to school very near there and lived there up until last year (though I'm loathe to admit that!). It's one of the top five? meth producers in the nation. It's a very rough town. If it's anything like where I went to school (15 miles away), racial tensions run pretty high. I'm not at all surprised that they are taking this so seriously.

[Gemini Cricket]

I think a felony charge is harsh. But I also don't know what kind of arson qualifies for a felony charge. Was there potential for it to get out of hand and cause widespread damgage etc.

I'm thinking that if someone burned an American flag lots of people would want that person charged with a felony.