The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Alex

Out of curiosity, do you shelter them from your political points of view? Or is the complaint more that you need the early years to make sure they're properly indoctrinated against other views?

I say to you the same thing I said to MBC. That completely baffles me. Part of parenting is passing along your morals and values to your children while they are young, trying to guide them in the direction you see best, hoping they will see the world the way you do when they get older, but understanding that they may not.

Honestly, I find these questions from you and MBC.....scary, for lack of a better word.

[Betty]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I say to you the same thing I said to MBC. That completely baffles me. Part of parenting is passing along your morals and values to your children while they are young, trying to guide them in the direction you see best, hoping they will see the world the way you do when they get older, but understanding that they may not.

Honestly, I find these questions from you and MBC.....scary, for lack of a better word.

Why are you so "scared" they may not think the same way you do?

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

I actually called my dad last night and thanked him for raising me to look at both sides, objectively. For always explaining to me why he was voting the way he did, why he agreed/disagreed with a particular candidate over the issues. For never blanketly saying "I just don't trust him" or "I have a bad feeling about her". For never bad-mouthing "the other guy". For showing me by example that just because he didn't agree with something they were still our elected officials and deserved respect.

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Part of parenting is passing along your morals and values to your children while they are young, trying to guide them in the direction you see best, hoping they will see the world the way you do when they get older, but understanding that they may not.

Guess I better call my dad back and tell him he screwed up by raising a daughter who can form independent thoughts separate from what he believes.

At least we know he screwed up when I was young and he started explaining the political process in very basic terms.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Guess I better call my dad back and tell him he screwed up by raising a daughter who can form independent thoughts separate from what he believes.

At least we know he screwed up when I was young and he started explaining the political process in very basic terms.

Wait, are you arguing against parents getting involved with their kids? That being a supportive parent squashes independent thought?

Ok, now I'm scared also.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

Wait, are you arguing against parents getting involved with their kids? That being a supportive parent squashes independent thought?

Ok, now I'm scared also.

I really hoping I'm missing some sarcasm in your post.

On the chance that you aren't kidding....

For me to have these memories going back as far as I can remember means my dad was pretty flippin involved. He took me with him to vote as soon as I was old enough to know to be quiet in the voting area and not yell "why are you voting for ________". I think I was 4 or 5.

I am arguing that sheltering kids so they only get "mom and dad's perspective on life" is not preparing their child for the path, they are expecting the path to be prepared for their child, or their child to change the path so it meets their needs without understanding the bumps, curves and other paths they may encounter along the way.

We all work to change the path to meet our needs. We also understand that we will meet roadblocks, bumps and curves and sometimes we have to bend with it, and sometimes we have to wait until the block comes down and sometimes we decide that another path is better.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

Guess I better call my dad back and tell him he screwed up by raising a daughter who can form independent thoughts separate from what he believes.

At least we know he screwed up when I was young and he started explaining the political process in very basic terms.

What the hell are you talking about? Am I speaking a different language? What part of understanding they might not think the same way I do when they're older didn't you understand? Did I say it was a bad thing?

To answer a few different questions, I am not afraid my children may end up with different opinions than me. What scared me was the thought that, while my children are young, the morals and values of their teacher - or anyone else for that matter - should be considered as more important (or equally so) to mine. That is what scares me.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

To answer a few different questions, I am not afraid my children may end up with different opinions than me. What scared me was the thought that, while my children are young, the morals and values of their teacher - or anyone else for that matter - should be considered as more important (or equally so) to mine. That is what scares me.

Why do you even let them out of your house to spend a day with these people if you think their moral are so utterly different than yours and abhorrent that they stand a chance of permanently scarring your children.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

What scared me was the thought that, while my children are young, the morals and values of their teacher - or anyone else for that matter - should be considered as more important (or equally so) to mine. That is what scares me.

But in essence isn't that what you are saying by sending them to a certain school? I mean, private schools thrive on money from people who send kids there because the teachers have the same set of morals and values they have.

But I must say, even at a Catholic school here in Hawai'i, I had teachers who had moral leanings that were directly opposite from the church's. I felt more well rounded because of what I learned from all of them. I picked and chose what I agreed with and what I didn't agree with. Don't all kids do that?

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

What the hell are you talking about? Am I speaking a different language? What part of understanding they might not think the same way I do when they're older didn't you understand? Did I say it was a bad thing?

I do understand that you don't want them to be exposed to any views that aren't yours until they are older. It seems that you think that children shouldn't be exposed to different views until they are old enough to have the critical thinking skills to understand people believe differently then you do.

Problem (or not) is, by the time they reach that age your views will be so ingrained in them that they will think the other views are wrong and they won't have the tools to be able to understand that people do have different views because they won't be exposed to anyone with different views.



And now I feel like we've gone beyond discussing politics in general to criticizing your parenting skills. That, I don't think is cool.

I will apologize for the directness of this to your personal, off-board life. I say what I say about anyone who doesn't expose their kids to different views (general ewe, in a way). The topic is good, the subject direction is a poor choice.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Honestly, I find these questions from you and MBC.....scary, for lack of a better word.

I must have missed a page, didn't see the back and forth with MBC (though you never answered when I asked the same thing a few pages back).

You shouldn't be scared by me. I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily and of course parents tend to pass on their view of the world to their children (it is no accident that while everybody feels their religion is obviously and intellectually the obvious one the most reliable indicator of religious belief in an adult is to see what the religious beliefs of the parents were). I just think you're dishonest in how you frame the objection. Your issue is not with young children being exposed to ideas they can't understand (what you said), your issue is the idea that the teacher would intrude on your territory in taking advantage of them being too young to understand to try and ensure that by the time they are old enough to understand they've already been taught your point of view as the correct one (and thus, are much less likely to question it even once capable).

You also moved the goalposts. Initially you said you didn't trust Obama. Then you shifted that distrust to the teachers. As has been pointed out, if that is the concern it exists independently of whatever the president is doing. But I'm sure you've done your best to make sure your children are in an academic environment least likely to challenge your personal views.

===

In third grade we a required class activity was to read one article from the local newspaper and write one paragraph summarizing it and develop a scrapbook through the year. Am I correct that you would object to such an exercise since it exposed our young minds to all kinds of news and ideas (I can't remember if the oped page was included but I know everything else was)?