The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[BarTopDancer]

If thousands of people from Canada were here illegally that would make them illegal Canadians.

People from Mexico are Mexican and people from Canada are Canadian and people from America are American.

Am I being racist against the Canadians for not wanting them here illegally?

What about all the Mexicans who are here legally and want the illegal Mexicans to be kicked out? Are they racist?

[wendybeth]

In all honesty, Lizziebith- we have a very small hispanic population up here, so I really don't equate illegal aliens with hispanics. To me, the term illegal says it all, and I really don't think I apply any sort of racial agenda to it. Damn it, if a person is not here legally, then they are illegal-plain and simple. If the laws are unfair or skewed to a certain demographic, then let's work to fix it- I'm definitely on board for that. Until then, we either declare a free-for-all run across the boarders to attain citizenship, or we actually start enforcing our laws. Otherwise, wtf have them to begin with?

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

If the laws are unfair or skewed to a certain demographic

Isn't the complaint that the laws are unfair to the people who are here illegally?

[wendybeth]

If the laws are unfair, then convince the citizenry to change them- don't frikken try to blackmail them into it, because that will never work. Echoes of the Third Estate, and we all know what they did.

[Alex]

Irish isn't a race. Calling anti-Irish sentiment racism does a real disservice to actual racism. But since use of English words to mean specific things has been specifically precluded by iSm, I guess I haven't a leg to stand on.

The two populations of illegal immigrants I have had the most direct exposure to are Southeast Asians and the not insignifant illegal Irish population in San Francisco. I'm just as opposed to them as I am other illegal immigrants. And yet I have no problem with every member of the Hispanic, Irish, or Laotian "races" coming here legally. I'm guessing I support a more liberal legal immigration process than just about anybody that might post here. But it is good to know that since the majority of America's illegal immigrants are of the Hispanic "race" then such opposition is racist. I'm also opposed to illegal immigration in France where it is mostly Angolans and Turks. I'm opposed to it Germany where a significant portion is white Eastern Europeans. I'm opposed to it in South Korea where it is Malay, Thai, and Indonesian. I'm opposed to it when it is Canadians (and yes, there are lots of Canadians illegally in this country). I'm opposed to it when it is Americans in Canada (and yes, there are a fair amount of those as well). I'm opposed to it when it is Nicaraguans into Mexico and Haitians into the Dominican Republic. I'm just the most racisist person in the world.

To correlate crime with illegal immigration is a mostly baseless assumption (except insofar as certain crimes correlate well with the segment of the socioeconomic class in which most illegal immigrants find themselves) but it is not an inherently racist one.

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

Irish isn't a race.

Don't make me get drunk and kick your ass.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by SacTown Chronic

Don't make me get drunk and kick your ass.

You can kick my ass all the way to Dublin (wait, I'm already there), but Irish still won't be a race.


I think all points of entry should be firmly enforced but it sounds like some people here are saying that the firement shouldn't put out any of the fire unless they can simultaneously put out the entire fire.

Border control isn't even the only issue. Many illegal immigrants enter the country legally, they just stay in the country illegally. There are an estimated 60,000-75,000 Irish in the country Illegally (mostly in the New York City area, Chicago, and San Francisco) and most of them enter the country on valid tourist visas and just don't leave when they're supposed to.

I know it is racist, but I think they should be deported when found. I also think quotas on legal immigration should be removed so that anybody who can show self-support once they get here can come legally (regardless of their "race").

[lizziebith]

Okay...are *illegal* Canadians the problem being talked about? I don't think any honest person would say so. I think the term "illegal" is code. Code for a group that is currently being scapegoated: Mexicans.

EDIT: wendybeth's post alarms me most: they have won the terminology war and now have everyone paranoid about a person's "status." Consider me freaked.

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by lizziebith

EDIT: wendybeth's post alarms me most: they have won the terminology war and now have everyone paranoid about a person's "status." Consider me freaked.

I suppose there are some people who are using illegal as code. I'm sure there are some people out there that think that way. If that's the sentiment in your community, it is unfortunate. But please don't assume that we are all living that same experience.

Up here, "illegal" is just as likely to mean Chinese as Mexican, if not more so. There are regular news reports of illegal Chinese immigrants coming in through the Ports of Seattle and Tacoma in shipping containers. Or, smugglers take them over the Canadian border, just as happens with the Mexican border. I don't think I've ever heard a local news report about rounding up illegal Mexican immigrants, and I've heard dozens upon dozens about Chinese immigrants.

Maybe the bias is more pronounced on the east side of the state (wendybeth? any comment?) but honestly I wasn't aware that Hispanics were considered a minority until I started having to fill out affirmative action forms when applying for work after college graduation. Maybe I'm horribly naive, but where I lived growing up, I didn't notice the kind of bias you describe. Whenever we talked about minorities we meant African Americans exclusively, because they were the rarity.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by lizziebith

Okay...are *illegal* Canadians the problem being talked about? I don't think any honest person would say so. I think the term "illegal" is code. Code for a group that is currently being scapegoated: Mexicans.

EDIT: wendybeth's post alarms me most: they have won the terminology war and now have everyone paranoid about a person's "status." Consider me freaked.

I don't suppose there are 11 million illegal Canadians in the country. The problem is the flow through the southern border.

Who is they? "They have won the terminology war...." Let me guess what you mean....right wing racists. Open your eyes LB....it isn't just the right side of the political spectrum!