LoT Book CLub - Book 2 - Wind Up Bird Chronicle by Haruki Murakami

[Alex]

Originally Posted by DreadPirateRoberts

I found it helped to read more that a few pages at a time to get the momentum going.

It's kind of a chicken and the egg thing. I only read a few pages because I quickly grow bored with it (whereas I read Book 1 in pretty much a single sitting) so without the momentum I can't easily read more than a few pages and forcing it will either reclaim the momentum or increase the boredom.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

Spoiler:

I was a bit disappointed in not having a face-to-face with Noboru Wataya at the end. Giving him a stroke from afar was anti-climactic.

Spoiler:

I'm still in the re-read, but doean't that happen when he's in the well?

Seeing the Last Wave again last night is making me think more about real time versus dream time. In this story (as many others) there seems to always be this movement between the two parallel worlds.

I'm in the 300's now - so about half way through so go ahead and pick it up Steph - either you'll get sucked into the groove with us here - or you'll find it tiresome and can abandon when the discussion dies down.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Spoiler:

I'm still in the re-read, but doean't that happen when he's in the well?

Spoiler:

Yes, and his actions in the well/hotel underworld manifest as Wataya's stroke. The confrontation in the well/hotel are the real climax but I did want to see Wataya get his ass kicked in person.

[katiesue]

I'm still working on it but I have found that it's taking me much longer to read than usual. I don't know if it's the style or what. I read very quickly usually and it seems that it's just taking me longer per page than other books. Perhaps because there's a lot going on and I need to pay more attention?

[Not Afraid]

I'm right behind Chris in my re-read but I am noticing a lot of connections that I did not notice the first time. Although, I am afraid of trying to make things a lot more concrete than they are meant to be (interesting reaction from me since I am one that enjoys ambiguity).

There are many many references to the "other" world that have happened throughout the book so far.

Spoiler:

page 187, Wind-up bird is missing, Komiko has left and he waunders over to May's house in a daze. May hands him some lemon water to clear his head:

Ice clinked when I took it. The sound seemed to reach me froma distant wold. There were several gates conneting that world with the place where I was, and I could hear the sound because they all just happened to be opened at the moment. But this was strictky temporary. If even one of them closed the sound would no longer reach my ears.

Lt. Mamaya also think of his experience in Mongolia as reality that stops when he was thrust into the well. He dreams of slowly rotting at the bottom of the well and it seems that "sometimes it seemed to me that that was what had really happened and my life here was a dream." (pg 171)

But, to me the entire Mamiya story is so prophetic to Toru's own story and had such a profound effect on what he end up doing I find it hard to separate the two at times.

Of course, this all happens before the blur of what happens in the well.

The first reference to a well happend much earlier on in the book than I recall and I only would have noticed this on a second read.

Spoiler:

pg 28. Toru and Kumiko are arguing while seh is PMSing and she can't understand why he never takes out his bad moods on others. She says "maybe you've got this deep well inside of you and you shout into it, 'The king;s got donkey's ears!' and then everything's OK."

The man with no face?

Spoiler:

Is this his own pasivity that he doesn't listen to at certain times?

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Spoiler:

But, to me the entire Mamiya story is so prophetic to Toru's own story and had such a profound effect on what he end up doing I find it hard to separate the two at times.

I don't think you're meant to separate them. It was a very effective parallel.

Spoiler:

The man with no face? Is this his own pasivity that he doesn't listen to at certain times?

I guess I thought that was supposed to be his brother in-law. I'll have to reread some of this myself!

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

I guess I thought that was supposed to be his brother in-law. I'll have to reread some of this myself!

Spoiler:

I think the man without a face is Toru - especially after rereading this quote from Malta (which is later repeated by Toru in his thoughts):
(page 282)

To know one's own state is not a simple matter. One cannot look directly at one's own face with one's own eyes, for example. One has no choice but to look at one's reflection in the mirror. Through experience, we come to believe that the image is correct, but that is all.

in other words, Toru's true self has no face - or at least cannot be seen by him.

[€uroMeinke]

And to combine Lisa nad my last posts - aren't they yin and Yang - when one feels good the other bad, etc.? I know there's a quote in there about that and it seems they cannot coexist in the same world.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Spoiler:

I think the man without a face is Toru - especially after rereading this quote from Malta (which is later repeated by Toru in his thoughts):
(page 282)


in other words, Toru's true self has no face - or at least cannot be seen by him.

Spoiler:

My bad. I was confusing the faceless man with the unidentified antagonist (definitely the brother) who was keeping his wife in the room. I momentarily forgot about the faceless man. The bodiless voice of Komiko is the perfect balance to Toru's faceless counterpart in the well-world. I was confusing myself.

I didn't read this book all that long ago but I've read about five since, so I'm already forgetting important details.

[tracilicious]

Originally Posted by Eliza Hodgkins 1812

Spoiler:

My bad. I was confusing the faceless man with the unidentified antagonist (definitely the brother) who was keeping his wife in the room. I momentarily forgot about the faceless man. The bodiless voice of Komiko is the perfect balance to Toru's faceless counterpart in the well-world. I was confusing myself.

Me too. I need to reread it and I just read it!