Religious Freedom

[tracilicious]

Just a quick update.

I am officially out of the religious closet. Only one of my sisters has decided not to talk to me anymore. We were good friends. Could have been worse I guess.

[lashbear]

Originally Posted by tracilicious

Just a quick update.

I am officially out of the religious closet. Only one of my sisters has decided not to talk to me anymore. We were good friends. Could have been worse I guess.

Now all you need to do is get the others to work on the one.

Glad to hear you're not cut off from all.

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by tracilicious

Just a quick update.

I am officially out of the religious closet. Only one of my sisters has decided not to talk to me anymore. We were good friends. Could have been worse I guess.

You thought you were good friends.

I have an elderly aunt who still lives in the Father Divine mission in Philadelphia. My mother said, "Fine," on that long ago. Don't lose too much sleep over it.

The family stories I have about people who, having experienced intolerance generally and from going their own way, could still heap intolerance on others for the way they went could fill a book.

[MouseWife]

Originally Posted by tracilicious

Just a quick update.

I am officially out of the religious closet. Only one of my sisters has decided not to talk to me anymore. We were good friends. Could have been worse I guess.

Hmm. This makes me wonder~

Is this why my sister really doesn't talk to me anymore? She had loaned me 'The Passions of the Christ' and I told her I couldn't watch it because I couldn't sit and watch the torture, no matter to whom. I don't go in for that sort of visual, ya know?

So, after, she 'witnesses' to me. I know it is her new church and I know they are supposed to 'save' people and I love her for wanting to 'save' me.

I told her that I felt that I was living a life that would make God happy, I am honest and I care about people, etc. She said it wasn't enough. I told her it was for me and while I appreciated her attempt and the reasons behind it, no thanks.

I also told her 'You did do a great job in your attempt'. See, me, always trying to be positive. Even though I wanted no part in all of it, even though I felt attacked, insulted and my whole life knocked, I still wanted to encourage her on her attempts.

Anywho, don't hear from her much anymore. I wondered what was up and now this makes sense.

Aren't they supposed to cut people out who aren't positive Christian role models? I really wonder if I've heard this before.

Well, while it saddens me that there are two people who come to mind {one being my sis} who have been absent from my life, it is such a nice feeling not to be judged every freakin' time we are together that what I say is wrong and that I think the way I do or have problems that I have because I don't go to church, etc.

Strength to you in this time and remember you are a great person.

[lashbear]

Originally Posted by MouseWife

Hmm. This makes me wonder~

Is this why my sister really doesn't talk to me anymore? ....

...Anywho, don't hear from her much anymore. I wondered what was up and now this makes sense.

As we were fond of quoting when I was in the pentecostal, hallelujia, born again, charismatic Hillsong church (when it was only the "hills christion life centre" in a industrial unit):

In the Bible 2 Corinthians 6:14 says:"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?" (KJV)

"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" (NIV)

"Do not be teamed with those who do not love the Lord, for what do the people of God have in common with the people of sin? How can light live with darkness?" (LB)


See - we were told that our relatives and friends who were not "of God" were bad influences and we were to avoid contact and most certainly should not go out with or marry them.

Oh well, with all the money I saved not going out with anyone, I could afford the full 10% of my wage (before tax) tithes. I just love their big new monumental church estate they've built.


....the above post is with apologies to non-extremist Christians like Nephy & Scaeagles... I just need to vent sometimes. Forgive me.

[MouseWife]

Thanks, Lashbear. So it isn't my imagination....

Isn't it something? I sure hear a lot of judgement coming from religious people who are in no place to judge.

That is one big reason why I quit going to church and the biggest reason I don't go back. I was privy to some information via a member of a church committee and I had to tell them 'Isn't this what God is all about, forgiveness and beginning again? Shouldn't this person be given a chance? I don't see the church giving him a chance. I think he is a role model.' I was glad at the time that I felt I got through a bit. But to that person, not their whole member board.

I wish you the best. It isn't easy.

[scaeagles]

I've always heard that verse interpretted in reference to marriage. As in if you are a believer it probably isn't best to marry an unbeliever.

As a practicing (and practice certainly does not make perfect) Christian, it bugs me when unbelievers (or just those with varying opinions) are shunned. Jesus didn't hang out with the religious of the day. He hung out with those that the religious looked down on. Now, I will note that he didn't want people to remain unchanged, but he accepted everyone for who they were. For every former prostitute Jesus took under his wing there was a rich young ruler who wouldn't pay the price Jesus asked, which was just loving God more than money.

I have a different view of judgement than most. I can judge an action. We all judge actions all the time as to if we think it was a good thing or a bad thing. However, judgement of the heart is what no man can do. It is simply not within my purview to say so and so will burn in hell for such and such.

[Alex]

JW's don't, per policy, shun non-believers. They tend to hang out with like minded people but you are allowed to interact with all kinds of people.

The ones who are shunned are people who leave the faith. There is a certain amount of logic in this (not that it makes it any easier on people) because you have to understand what accepting the good news means to them and what a betrayal it is to have accepted it and then reject it. You are also fundamentally rejecting how they define themselves at their very core.

[tracilicious]

Alex is right. I wouldn't say they tend to hang out with like minded people though. I would say that 95% of them have no friends that aren't JW's. It's very strongly discouraged. They are friendly to unbelievers though.

I have a shred of hope that my sister will change her mind. I really do sympathize with my family. It isn't as black and white as judging and not being as good of friends as I thought we were. It's a whole nother world.

Celebrating Halloween to them is akin to Satan worship. I may as well have told them that I've decided to have a baby sandwich for lunch every day. They can't possibly comprehend that this is a decision I've come to using logic. To them my mind has been corrupted by Satan. Rejecting what they consider to be God's truth voluntarily is like telling them that I have a highly treatable form of cancer but have decided just to die. It isn't an easy time for them. I'm the last person they expected to do this to them, which makes it much worse.

If they were allowed to read anything about the bible or their religion besides what their religion publishes, then it would be much easier to understand. But then there also wouldn't be a ton of JW's left either. But as it is, they are indoctrinated three times a week, read loads of material published by their organization, and only associate with other JW's. It's a very insular world. To maintain close contact with me is to reach out of their comfort zone. Thankfully, most of them will do that. Hopefully in the end all of them will do that. Only because we are family though. There is no possible way any of our friends will.

So while I certainly am angry at my sister, I understand where she's coming from.

You guys' support has meant a great deal to me. I'm lucky to have the LoT and a supportive network of real life friends so that I can at least have a bit of normalcy right now.

[Alex]

Alex is right. I wouldn't say they tend to hang out with like minded people though. I would say that 95% of them have no friends that aren't JW's. It's very strongly discouraged.

I wonder if this is just standard variation from one congregation to another or if it is has become more rigid in the last 20 years (man, I can't believe it has been almost 20 years for me), but I don't recall ever experiencing any direct pressure not to associate with anybody I wanted (other than the disassociated), nor did my parents stop doing so.

And we were encouraged to read the bible (which is why I have read most of it), and not even just their translation but we also used the KJV. But yes, the official interpretation of things was always in your face.

Is it true that in recent years, the fine people in New York have moved away from the idea that Armageddon will happen before the last person alive in 1914 dies? I've always said that the first step in the maturation of a religion is abandoning specific predictions for the end of the world.

The thing I most liked about their specific brand of faith was that it got me out of having to celebrate my birthday (which I didn't like even when we did it) and the rejection of the trinity. The concept of the trinity has always struck me as very stupid so I'm glad I didn't have to try and internalize it.

Hopefully your sister will come around enough to have some kind of relationship, and I suspect she will with time.