Ta Ta Jesse Helms

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Oh gosh, you're right! Oh Em Gee! Jesse Helms is a saint.

Nice hyperbole, but not what I posted.

[Chernabog]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

James Meredith

...oh yeah, and he's black.

While that's an interesting tidbit, I sincerely hope that isn't being used as some sort of defense for Jesse Helms (i.e. but he was nice to a black guy, so he wasn't ALL bad). Evil people don't make evil decisions every single time.

Originally Posted by Nephythys

Nice hyperbole, but not what I posted.

So out of sincere curiosity... I don't understand the comment at the end, in relation to why it was posted.

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Chernabog

While that's an interesting tidbit, I sincerely hope that isn't being used as some sort of defense for Jesse Helms (i.e. but he was nice to a black guy, so he wasn't ALL bad). Evil people don't make evil decisions every single time.

I certainly hope you are not expecting to put me on the defensive on the issue of Jesse Helms.

As for my post- I thought it interesting to point out. There is much more out there that points to the fact that the man was not a racist- most of which I will not bother posting because I am not interested in fighting people on what sources I find.

I offered no defense- just a bit of information that starts to deflate this idea that the man was an unabashed racist. I can find no such information that does the same for his view of gay people- sadly. Though I would not call him "evil" - but then I save such terms for people who commit far more heinous acts than his.

Have a splendid day!

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by Chernabog

So out of sincere curiosity... I don't understand the comment at the end, in relation to why it was posted.

That he was black? Because the quote does not refer to his skin color and I am unsure who will bother to click the link to see his picture.

Nothing more than that.

[Not Afraid]

I guess I'm unclear as well. He was a black man who worked for Helms. Therefore Helms is not a racist?

I worked for a man who was a misogynist. There was no questions about his views. I don't think his stance as a misogynist was obiliterated because he hired me.

[mousepod]

Well, there are lots of people who go break the ranks with their race, or cultural group. Those people are always embraced by haters to help show that they're not racist (sexist, homophobic, whatever). Somehow the argument that "I'm not against black people, just civil rights. See! There's a black person against civil rights," doesn't play in my book.

There are plenty of Jews who are anti-Zionist (I can think of one or two close friends on this board). They're entitled to their opinion, but as soon as they're embraced by Hamas, a red flag goes up.

Same goes for anti-feminists, like Phyllis Schlafly.

I'm not saying that Nephy was overtly trying to make Jesse Helms look like less of an azzhole, it's just that when I read it, that's the impression I got. The fact that she chose to post about a black man who worked for Helms in a thread about how Helms was a racist creep threw me off.

Helms was a creep.

Nothing more than that.

[Nephythys]

I do not join nor approve of the grave dancing. However I have not insulted those who did-
However-I find a certain amount of irony in the amount of hate condemning a man for the same.

I find some of these items of interest, anecdotal I am certain- but perhaps it punctures a few holes in the "Helms was evil" meme-

I also offer no defense where he was in fact- wrong. As people often are-

"It had been my feeling that AIDS was a disease largely spread by reckless and voluntary sexual and drug-abusing behavior, and that it would probably be confined to those in high risk populations. I was wrong."

The truth is the truth whether people choose to accept it or not. Let me be very clear. From my earliest days I was taught to respect all people. It is just that simple. I didn’t need to shift my position because it was always on the side my parents expected me to take and modeled by their example. I never took the time to argue with the nonsense claims that I was a racist because I knew the truth and more importantly every African-American with whom I had ever enjoyed a friendship or who worked with me in any capacity knew the truth, too.

Source cited- and will be villified and dismissed I would expect)

Jesse and Dot Helms were the parents of three children: Jane, Nancy of Raleigh, and Charles Helms of Winston-Salem, North Carolina. Charles, their third son, was a nine year old orphan with cerebral palsy when he was adopted by the Helmses.[3]They decided to adopt him after reading in a newspaper that he wanted a mother and father for Christmas.[3] They had seven grandchildren and one great-grandchild.[3]

Source

Was he WRONG on many issues- yes. Especially on the issues of gays and AIDS- and not one of you with ANY honesty can tell me I support or approve of his stance on homosexuals. Don't even try!

However- I do not think he lives up to the level of evil- but perhaps that is because my definition is different than many of yours.

Bottom line- no defense- just other information. If this thread was purely for the joy of dancing about his death perhaps it does not belong in a forum where discussion is par for the course?

[JWBear]

Again... Just because someone has some good qualities does not - any any way - forgive or lessen the evil they have done.

***WARNING*** Godwin's Law is about to be invoked:

Hitler loved dogs. Does that make what he did ok in your eyes too?

[blueerica]

I'm on the side of "why are we gravedancing?"

He's dead. Never liked him. So?

[Nephythys]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Again... Just because someone has some good qualities does not - any any way - forgive or lessen the evil they have done.

***WARNING*** Godwin's Law is about to be invoked:

Hitler loved dogs. Does that make what he did ok in your eyes too?

Really? So if someone does something wrong, nothing good they do redeems their errors? Such as Helms work wth Bono in relations to AIDS in Africa? No redemptive value because he did not totally capitulate all of his views to align with yours?

When you can find where I said everything he did was "ok" this question may have merit.

The man was wrong. He was not evil- at least by my definition.