Finally, something atheists and Christians can agree on

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Leo channelling Alex:



How'd I do?

Actually it was a trick question. Of course it would funny to watch Alex beat himself with a baseball bat.

[BDBopper]

Well at least I agree that it was somewhat funny. However I don't go around beating people with baseball bats because of their beliefs no matter how silly I think they are.

[scaeagles]

I do.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by BDBopper

Well at least I agree that it was somewhat funny. However I don't go around beating people with baseball bats because of their beliefs no matter how silly I think they are.

Exactly my point.

[Alex]

[I think I just heard an audible groan from the membership of this board when they saw you ask me that.]

Actually, I'd say that calling myself an atheist says a lot about what I believe in. But you want a brief overview of what I believe in regard to what?

And no, what I believe in can't be posted briefly (though I've hardly been shy about posting the details here over the years). If what one believes about the fundamental nature of the universe can be adequately covered in a couple sentences then either not enough personal thought has been put into it or too much reliance is being put on simply accepting the thinking of others. Maybe when we start communicating purely in the language of mathematics I'll be able to give you my metaphysical version of E=MC^2.

But if you want an attempt: I do not believe there is any such thing as the supernatural. I do believe the universe to be entirely mechanistic and that to the degree anything appears non-mechanical it is simply because we have not yet sussed out all the rules. I believe it is entirely possible it is not within our abilities to ever understand all of the rules. However, this uncertainty does not scare me and inspire me to create myths to provide comfort and answer the so far unanswerable. Despite the mechanistic nature of the universe I believe it has a complexity and inherent randomness that defies the prediction that should be possible in an entirely Newtonian mechanical universe. As a corollary of that, I do not believe that free will actually exists as everything we do reduces to mechanical interactions, but that because of the randomness and intractability of our biology that we have no choice but to perceive in ourselves a free will. And that is no less true for me than anybody else and therefore I do not see it as contradictory when I speak in the language of freewill any more than it is internally contradictory for a schizophrenic to simultaneously recognize that the voice in his heard aren't real but to not be able to ignore what they tell him to do. I do not believe the universe or our collective or personal existence has "a purpose" beyond what our chemistry causes us to perceive. I believe that I respect honest religious belief and faith for when it is boils up from an internal feeling or experience of perception, it is no less real than my perception of free will. I believe that when I have used the word "believe" in the previous sentences that I am doing so with a fundamentally different meaning than the way a person of faith uses the word. I believe that while I certainly could be wrong in each of the things I have said I believe in the previous sentences, there has never yet been offered any evidence to suggest that I am, at least not beyond the entirely internal feelings of billions of people. To paraphrse someone else, rather than being relatively unusual in my atheism I think we are all 99.999999% atheists and I just take it one god (or pantheon) farther. I believe that while saying I admit I could be wrong technically makes me an agnostic in the eyes of many, I remain functionally an atheist because until presented with some evidence of error I see no reason to behave on the assumption that I am wrong.

But regardless, you can assume it would be fun to beat me with a stick. Just as, when in the right mood, I know for a fact that it can be fun to be beaten by a stick.

I have no problem with dismissing Scientology (on the assumption that the cartoon is not a call to actual violence). Just not, as the Christian does, on the basis that Scientology has some element of oddity making it distinct from the Christian religions (or any other). I also have no problem with the Christian and Scientologist dismissing me. I can take it.

I certainly have varying degrees of approval to the earthly actions of the followers of various religions and particularly with how well various beliefs can be integrated into secular society. But the actual beliefs of Scientology are, to my view, no odder than those of Catholicism.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

How'd I do?

Way too short. And slightly off target. But not bad.

[Alex]

Oh, and as the atheist speaking up can I just say I think I'd prefer to be PC and not Justin Long?

[BDBopper]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

Exactly my point.

Alas I don't think I am going to change. I've always had that sort of quality. I'm a "not-so-bitter East Coaster"

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

Can you briefly post what you do believe in so we can decide if it would be funny to see you beat yourself with a bat or not?

Originally Posted by Alex

[I think I just heard an audible groan from the membership of this board when they saw you ask me that.]

Actually, I'd say that calling myself an atheist says a lot about what I believe in. But you want a brief overview of what I believe in regard to what?

And no, what I believe in can't be posted briefly (though I've hardly been shy about posting the details here over the years). If what one believes about the fundamental nature of the universe can be adequately covered in a couple sentences then either not enough personal thought has been put into it or too much reliance is being put on simply accepting the thinking of others. Maybe when we start communicating purely in the language of mathematics I'll be able to give you my metaphysical version of E=MC^2.

But if you want an attempt: I do not believe there is any such thing as the supernatural. I do believe the universe to be entirely mechanistic and that to the degree anything appears non-mechanical it is simply because we have not yet sussed out all the rules. I believe it is entirely possible it is not within our abilities to ever understand all of the rules. However, this uncertainty does not scare me and inspire me to create myths to provide comfort and answer the so far unanswerable. Despite the mechanistic nature of the universe I believe it has a complexity and inherent randomness that defies the prediction that should be possible in an entirely Newtonian mechanical universe. As a corollary of that, I do not believe that free will actually exists as everything we do reduces to mechanical interactions, but that because of the randomness and intractability of our biology that we have no choice but to perceive in ourselves a free will. And that is no less true for me than anybody else and therefore I do not see it as contradictory when I speak in the language of freewill any more than it is internally contradictory for a schizophrenic to simultaneously recognize that the voice in his heard aren't real but to not be able to ignore what they tell him to do. I do not believe the universe or our collective or personal existence has "a purpose" beyond what our chemistry causes us to perceive. I believe that I respect honest religious belief and faith for when it is boils up from an internal feeling or experience of perception, it is no less real than my perception of free will. I believe that when I have used the word "believe" in the previous sentences that I am doing so with a fundamentally different meaning than the way a person of faith uses the word. I believe that while I certainly could be wrong in each of the things I have said I believe in the previous sentences, there has never yet been offered any evidence to suggest that I am, at least not beyond the entirely internal feelings of billions of people. To paraphrse someone else, rather than being relatively unusual in my atheism I think we are all 99.999999% atheists and I just take it one god (or pantheon) farther. I believe that while saying I admit I could be wrong technically makes me an agnostic in the eyes of many, I remain functionally an atheist because until presented with some evidence of error I see no reason to behave on the assumption that I am wrong.

But regardless, you can assume it would be fun to beat me with a stick. Just as, when in the right mood, I know for a fact that it can be fun to be beaten by a stick.

I have no problem with dismissing Scientology (on the assumption that the cartoon is not a call to actual violence). Just not, as the Christian does, on the basis that Scientology has some element of oddity making it distinct from the Christian religions (or any other). I also have no problem with the Christian and Scientologist dismissing me. I can take it.

I certainly have varying degrees of approval to the earthly actions of the followers of various religions and particularly with how well various beliefs can be integrated into secular society. But the actual beliefs of Scientology are, to my view, no odder than those of Catholicism.

Actually it was a trick question. Of course it would funny to watch you beat yourself with a baseball bat.

And as for "briefly", are you part Ent?

[BDBopper]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

And as for "briefly", are you part Ent?

I thought the Ents were so cool in the LOTR saga! Other than the hobbits they were my favorite species of character.