College for all - right?

[Pirate Bill]

I read this, rather slowly and in pieces, as time permitted me at work. I'm just not getting what the point of the article is. Maybe it's because I had to read it in bite-size chunks, or maybe it's because I just don't get it.

What I do get from it is that the author equates not passing English 101 to not being college material. I disagree.

I've found that we often become snobbish in the things we focus on...either in home or work life. It's seems snobbish to me to look down on someone (in the academic sense) for not having read To Kill a Mockingbird. That doesn't mean that they can't learn something even if they fail (I'm sure Ms L did learn something and will benefit from it). And it doesn't mean they can't benefit from or excel at other subjects offered up by the college.

Every time I take my car to the mechanic I get "scolded" for not changing the oil every 3,000 mile/3 months. I wonder if they think I'm not ready to own a car. My dental hygienist disapproves of my poor flossing habbits. I'm flabbergasted by people who don't apply regular security software updates to their computers. People who tell me they've never been to any Disney park in their life (adults...with kids even!) just get blank stares of bewilderment from me. And don't even get me started on people who buy DVDs that have been formatted to "full frame." *shudder*

So, yes. I too get snobbish about the things that I focus on. I might think that some people aren't ready for computer ownership, or need to high-tail it to the nearest Disney park, or need to plead to the movie gods for forgiveness. But in the grand scheme of things, I would be wrong.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Pirate Bill

What I do get from it is that the author equates not passing English 101 to not being college material. I disagree.

I think what the author was getting at was more exemplary than simple fact. Let's face it: some people aren't cut out for traditional college education. my take was that the author was just giving an example from his area of experience. The issue was the complete lack of critical thought by Ms. L. She was unable to grasp simple instructions and repeated (and polite) admonitions of "you're doing it wrong: here is the right was to do it."

Originally Posted by Pirate Bill

And don't even get me started on people who buy DVDs that have been formatted to "full frame." *shudder*

Well, in this instance, this is truly a situation where that person should not be allowed to own a DVD player. But this is the exception.

[Morrigoon]

Wow, there is definite truth in that article. Although I'd say the sole reason we allow them to put themselves through the exercise is for the people who can and do make it through.

What is a shame is that with so many people having bachelors degrees, the value of it is so diluted that jobs paying maybe a dollar or two above minimum often require/desire a degree. Ridiculous. So we have a populous who have acquired massive student debt in the hopes of a better paying career that fails to materialize because too many other people have taken the same path.

At least 30 years ago those people with high school diplomas didn't have student loans to pay.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by sleepyjeff

Good read CP. Kind of reminds me of that line from The Incredibles....."Everybody is special Dash"......Dash responds mumbling "another way of saying no one is"

Funny: I just watched that last night and that line really stuck with me this viewing.

Originally Posted by blueerica

...I don't find it sad, but to be one of the most honest pieces I've read in ages.

Well, it depends on what on eis sad about. I am sad for the lack of caring and understanding portrayed by Ms. L as this is a symbol of what many people in our society are. But at the same time, I am quite glad that Professor X chose to take what I believe is the right path. Social Advancement is a horrible concept.

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

The article reminded me of my time at University of Phoenix. <snip> Some students were Ms. L, yet they passed with an A (college for all, an A for all at UoP).

THIS is sad.

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

What is a shame is that with so many people having bachelors degrees, the value of it is so diluted that jobs paying maybe a dollar or two above minimum often require/desire a degree. Ridiculous. So we have a populous who have acquired massive student debt in the hopes of a better paying career that fails to materialize because too many other people have taken the same path.

WTF? It is a SHAME that so many people are educated? That makes no sense to me at all. In fact, I find it quite arrogant!

When a person with a Bachelor's (or higher) degree is only able to make a buck or two above minimum wage, I say that person is doing something wrong. Having the piece of paper is not some magical ticket where the world owes you something, it simply gave the person a better base of knowledge and understanding of how to learn and how to grow. One's education does not end on graduation day: there is a reason it is called a "Commencement": it is the beginning, not the end.

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

WTF? It is a SHAME that so many people are educated? That makes no sense to me at all. In fact, I find it quite arrogant!

Except that I don't think that so many people ARE educated. I think that the social promotion trend is so strong that a bachelor's degree now *is* relatively worth less than it was - not because so many have it, but because so many of those that have it don't deserve it.

The more it becomes a requirement, the more people want to obtain one, and the more schools are tempted to increase their business by making sure people get them. Maybe I am just a huge snob, but frankly I think many of the people receiving degrees don't deserve them. I don't think they are actually educated at the level a college degree SHOULD reflect. It doesn't mean that I think they're stupid, just that they don't have the particular knowledge set that a college degree should represent.

I and *do* think you that not being able to pass English 101 makes you not college material. As I said already - doesn't mean you're stupid, but a college degree is suppose to indicate a minimum competence in certain areas. I can't right this moment think of a degree field where effective communication is not an important skill.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

THIS is sad.

I'm flat out to lazy to go find it - but 5-10 years ago UoP was going to lose it's accreditation because it was a degree mill. Pay your money, wait the amount of time it took and get your degree. Teachers were forging attendance records, letting students come late, leave early. Everyone gets an A.

Now, you have to come on time, stay till it's over and they aren't supposed to give everyone As, but they do. My group was the curve in the class. And we weren't anything spectacular, just average people doing average level work. It was very sad - people who couldn't speak well, write well or follow basic project instructions were still getting As.

[Morrigoon]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

WTF? It is a SHAME that so many people are educated? That makes no sense to me at all. In fact, I find it quite arrogant!

No Kevy, that's not what I meant. Jobs that 30 years ago would only have required a high school education (and therefore no acquisition of student debt) now require a college degree. They are still low paying, but the person who gets the job has amassed thousands of dollars in debt just to get to that level, which they should have been able to get to without the degree and debt.

And that fact is part of what forces the Ms. L's of the world to get in over their heads, because that piece of paper is starting to become the "base" level of education. In other words - enough education to actually get by in life is no longer free for all.

[Morrigoon]

I think the author's point wasn't so much that nobody had read To Kill A Mockingbird, but that he was lucky if they'd read anything at all.

Plus, the point of English 101 is to prepare you to be capable of writing the papers needed to pass your other classes. That is, to be able to read, process, and write AT a college level.

[Alex]

I blame Hitler (seriously).

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by Alex

I blame Hitler (seriously).

Well, my father, who fled Hitler as a boy, decided to show him a thing or two by not going to college on the G.I. Bill after his military service when he could have and should have.