Librarians turned snitch? - Page 4

€uroMeinke · 12-19-2005, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

So....what to do? Leave out certain forms of intelligence gathering that may prevent another 9/11 and then take the heat when another 9/11 takes place?

That of course is the challenge - having happend once, we can be certain someone would like to make it happen again. To some extent though I wonder if this sort of intelligence actually effective against this sort of thing. You have software and agents looking for patterns, whicle the other side works to create new ones.

For me I guess I lack the confidence that such things can be prevented through these extra-survellience tools, and I fear more the potential for abuse. On the one hand, I suppose I should find comfort in both sides of the aisle being complicit in this thing, but the anarchist in me trusts neither of them to do anything that isn't self-serving.

scaeagles · 12-19-2005, 03:51 PM

I would have to say our electronic intelligence gathering is probably pretty sophisticated and gathers lots of stuff. The sad thing about intelligence gathering is that to publically discuss the successes would be self defeating by tipping what had been stopped by what means.

Every leak, sadly, tips the terrorist element - whether among us or on foreign shores - as to what we are able to do and how successful we are at doing it. I would like to think this is why Pelosi and Reid did not come forward after being briefed as to NSA surveillance methods.

Gemini Cricket · 12-19-2005, 04:03 PM

The part that bugs me is that Bush ran both campaigns as him being some sort of moral compass for America. That he was going to put morality back into the presidency after the Clinton Administration left. Obviously that ain't true. It's the hypocrisy that steams me. But, scaeagles is right this abuse of power ain't shocking. Not coming from this president...

innerSpaceman · 12-19-2005, 06:15 PM

And, according to legal reseach I've done today, Bush has commited a felony and is a criminal. There's no law that allows him to go around FISA in issuing warrants. It's the settled law of the land, according to the legislature and the rulings of the Supreme Court. He's a crook.

Clinton was also a crook. He perjured himself. He was impeached for it.

Bush has commited a felony. Argue with that if you will, scaeagles ... but I really want to know if - ASSUMING it's a felony and that Bush is therefore a felon - would you be in favor of Bush being impeached for it? Hypothetically. Indulge me.

scaeagles · 12-19-2005, 06:22 PM

I'll indulge you....

First, I'll say that from what I've read - and granted, I am not a lawyer - Bush has not committed a felony. However, hypothetically.....

Yes. If Bush has committed a felony, then he should be impeached and removed from office.

Edited to add:
You realize this means Cheney would be President. I could live with that.

I predict, however, that this will fail to gain traction politically or legally.

Motorboat Cruiser · 12-19-2005, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

and granted, I am not a lawyer

Is that you, Condi?

wendybeth · 12-19-2005, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I'll indulge you....

First, I'll say that from what I've read - and granted, I am not a lawyer - Bush has not committed a felony. However, hypothetically.....

Yes. If Bush has committed a felony, then he should be impeached and removed from office.

Edited to add:
You realize this means Cheney would be President. I could live with that.

I predict, however, that this will fail to gain traction politically or legally.

Unless it could be proved that Cheney is the one who leaked the story, along with the Plame case.... Who else has such a great motive?

€uroMeinke · 12-19-2005, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Unless it could be proved that Cheney is the one who leaked the story, along with the Plame case.... Who else has such a great motive?

So then we get Condi? I could probably live with that.

Prudence · 12-19-2005, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

So then we get Condi? I could probably live with that.

Well, no, first would be the Speaker of the House, then the President pro tempore of the Senate, and then Condi.

wendybeth · 12-19-2005, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prudence

Well, no, first would be the Speaker of the House, then the President pro tempore of the Senate, and then Condi.

Then, Al Haig.

12-19-2005, 03:51 PM	#2
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I would have to say our electronic intelligence gathering is probably pretty sophisticated and gathers lots of stuff. The sad thing about intelligence gathering is that to publically discuss the successes would be self defeating by tipping what had been stopped by what means. Every leak, sadly, tips the terrorist element - whether among us or on foreign shores - as to what we are able to do and how successful we are at doing it. I would like to think this is why Pelosi and Reid did not come forward after being briefed as to NSA surveillance methods.
	Submit to Quotes

12-19-2005, 04:03 PM	#3
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	The part that bugs me is that Bush ran both campaigns as him being some sort of moral compass for America. That he was going to put morality back into the presidency after the Clinton Administration left. Obviously that ain't true. It's the hypocrisy that steams me. But, scaeagles is right this abuse of power ain't shocking. Not coming from this president...
	Submit to Quotes

12-19-2005, 06:15 PM	#4
innerSpaceman Kink of Swank Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Inner Space Posts: 13,075	And, according to legal reseach I've done today, Bush has commited a felony and is a criminal. There's no law that allows him to go around FISA in issuing warrants. It's the settled law of the land, according to the legislature and the rulings of the Supreme Court. He's a crook. Clinton was also a crook. He perjured himself. He was impeached for it. Bush has commited a felony. Argue with that if you will, scaeagles ... but I really want to know if - ASSUMING it's a felony and that Bush is therefore a felon - would you be in favor of Bush being impeached for it? Hypothetically. Indulge me.
	Submit to Quotes

12-19-2005, 06:22 PM	#5
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	I'll indulge you.... First, I'll say that from what I've read - and granted, I am not a lawyer - Bush has not committed a felony. However, hypothetically..... Yes. If Bush has committed a felony, then he should be impeached and removed from office. Edited to add: You realize this means Cheney would be President. I could live with that. I predict, however, that this will fail to gain traction politically or legally.
	Submit to Quotes

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode