Do you believe in God?

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by Moonliner

If I may quote myself...

Let's talk about where we'd like to go to lunch instead.

In our endless explorations, my wife and I attended an Episcopal service in the hills of Sausalito fairly recently after 9/11. The minister's explication of Jesus's message that Sunday was basically that everyone should have brunch. So we did, at the Alta Mira Hotel, which provided a lovely view of creation. Unfortunately, the hotel has turned its brunch operation over to Il Fornaio, which has gone the upscale buffet route. Jesus's message is now more expensive but not as good.

[LSPoorEeyorick]

I feel something that is bigger than me, bigger than what I can see, bigger than what I think any of us can understand. If god is god, and man is man, how is man to accurately define god? Our frame of reference is tiny, and if god encompasses all, how are we to set about describing god if we have no way of seeing all, ourselves?

I really, really dig what Jesus had to say about... just about everything... but I think sometimes it's misinterpreted in the interest of politics (public and personal.)

I love the strength and the support that one feels when one is part of an organized religion. I love admitting in a group that we are wee bits in an endless spectrum of being. I don't like it when churches abuse the power in numbers, though.

[CoasterMatt]

God is everywhere... praise chocolate cake!

[Frogberto]

I guess that it all depends on your definition of "God". If you accept the definition of God that Einstein, and Spinoza, put out there ... that is the sum total of the laws of the universe, then absolutely, there is a God. Some people, when asked to define God, say "you know - a force that's everywhere in the Universe", -- and gravity is everywhere in the universe, so it would be madness to deny gravity.

But I can't be an atheist - to me, an atheist is someone that has overwhelming evidence that God doesn't exist, and I can't say that I've seen that evidence. God as a concept can always be relegated to those areas that we haven't the means to explore yet, so I keep that option open.

I remember reading about Martin Gardner, the mathemetician, who said that he believed in God, as a vague, but comforting concept, even though he stated that atheists have the better arguments against a God. He called it "Fideistic Theism", and I can see that argument. So I'm "that", or an agnostic, depending on your definition.

As an interview on Salon.com said just a few days ago, there have been thousands of Gods - from Mithra to Gilgamesh, to Zeuss, etc., and yet most people are "agnostic", or even atheistic, as to those 9,999 Gods, but believe in the one God of "their" religion.

So, you could say that most people agree to be atheists as to 9,999 Gods, but there is disagreement as to just one of those Gods.

[Moonliner]

Originally Posted by Frogberto

I guess that it all depends on your definition of "God".

But I can't be an atheist - to me, an atheist is someone that has overwhelming evidence that God doesn't exist

But as asserted in the null hypothesis, you cannot prove a negative. In theory you could prove God exists by having him pop in and say hi. However it is impossible to prove he (or she if you like) does not exist. You have to have faith. So in some respects the null hypothesis = faith. Interesting.

[wendybeth]

Carl Sagan had a dear friend who was a noted theologian and Reverend. (Her name escapes me). One time, he said to her "You're so smart- why do you still believe in God?" Her reply was "You're so smart- why do you not?"

[Alex]

I don't see atheists (or myself) as a person with overwhelming evidence of god's nonexistence but rather an overwhelming lack of evidence of god's existence.

Based on my observation of the universe there seems to be about as much point in supposing the existence of "god" as there is to suppose the existence of a bottomless tube of Pringles. Both may (personally I don't find the idea of a god to be at all comforting but I recognize that many do) make me happy to imagine but beyond that there is to reason to believe either is real.

The only evidence I have that god doesn't exist is that none has been found. All I can offer are ever more examples that god can't be found lurking in the shadows people have previously claimed for him or in the effects people have pronounced in his honor. But I'll certainly never claim to have proof he doesn't exist. For example, god may have created the universe this morning at 8:34 a.m. Pacific and simply created it as a work in progress and we all have memories of events that happened before then but never did.

If you claim that this is your belief in how god exists and has acted I could never provide evidence that would refute it.

[Frogberto]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

Carl Sagan had a dear friend who was a noted theologian and Reverend. (Her name escapes me). One time, he said to her "You're so smart- why do you still believe in God?" Her reply was "You're so smart- why do you not?"

That's not completely an accurate quote, but Reverend Joan Gelbein was very much a friend of his. As a member of the Unitarian Universalist Life church, Reverend Gelbein was both involved in her church and also very close to Dr. Sagan, who had active participations in religious conferences, and at one time or another, had personal audiences with both the Dalai Lama and Pope John Paul II.

To give you an idea of Reverend Gelbein's take on what she defines as "God", consider this quote from her, where she also discusses Carl Sagan at length:

"I draw a word picture of Humanists, of which I am one, as skeptics -- atheists, non-theists, and agnostics -- who do not find much use in the concept of a traditional God. Some think the idea of the existence of any supernatural being to be little more than superstition. Those are your atheists. They often steer clear of organized religion and decry the negative effects of many dogmatic religions on the human spirit throughout the ages. They vigorously question religious authority."

I can't disagree with that.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Frogberto

As an interview on Salon.com said just a few days ago, there have been thousands of Gods - from Mithra to Gilgamesh, to Zeuss, etc., and yet most people are "agnostic", or even atheistic, as to those 9,999 Gods, but believe in the one God of "their" religion.

I believe in my version of God but feel that all other versions are simply views of the same God. This also reminds me that I don't put absolutes on my beliefs - like others have said here, I could be wrong. But I feel like I'm close...

[Tref]

Dominus illuminatio mea.