Another reason for me to not like the current Pope

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by BarTopDancer

I cannot find the animated image of the pope turning into the emperor. It was really popular when he was elected.

Damn kids these days don't know how to Google. Why, in my day, we didn't HAVE Google. And we LIKED it!

[Tref]

This may be an unpopular opinion, so I am going to keep this short, and as un-preachy as I am able, but I believe the Pope is correct.

The newspapers are taking much of what Benedict says out of context, as, I suppose, they are wont to do. There seems to be a definite anti-Catholic leaning in the media these days. Whether you feel that it is deserved or not, is for another thread.

Nevertheless, your views on Catholicism aside, the Roman Catholic Church is the only church that can be traced, Biblically and historically, directly back to the original disciples. In particular, the Apostle Peter, with whom Jesus essentially “gave the keys" to spread His teachings. Jesus built His church upon the Apostles as something that would continue indefinitely until the end of time, ruled by successors of these same men. Ergo, Pope Benedict.

You may not like it, but this was how the Mother Church came to be.

The Pope is not pulling this edicts from inside his tall Pope hat, in fact, they are based on what Jesus intended, which was one church in His name – the Roman Catholic Church. Not several thousand separate entities preaching His word -- but one.

My personal feeling is that everybody is welcome to belong to whichever church they feel is right for them.

To paraphrase another church leader, L. Ron Hubbard, “What is true for you is what you have observed yourself.”

Catholicism may not be for you, and the current Pope may rub you the wrong way, but it is the church founded by the Apostles on the command of Jesus. And you cannot say that about any other church.

The Pope is betrayed as the great divider, though he has no intention of being such. What he is doing is stating the exact position of the Catholic Church, as it has been for two thousand years. In other words, his words are only news to non-Catholics. Indeed, in order to have any sort of open dialogue, you must state your positions as clearly and as honestly as you are able. This is what the Pope has done. He should be applauded, not derided.

And so, I had said my peace, and to quote Charles Chaplin to the critics attending a premiere of Monsieur Verdoux, "Proceed with the butchery ..."

[alphabassettgrrl]

Historically true, but where we differ is that I don't feel it's required to trace that kind of ancestry to have a valid church.

[katiesue]

And what about Greek and Russian Orthodox which broke off from the original Roman Catholic church. They trace back along the same line. Same with Episcopal, they use the same liturgy just changed the ground rules around a bit.

[Morrigoon]

I think a lot of the protestant faiths recognize that the catholic church was the church established by Jesus, however, they felt that the original church had "lost its way" and so they started the new church to bring things closer to what they believed was intended. So as far as "true" church... well, it's sorta like a member of the nobility that has two sons. Firstborn son inherits the estate, even if Son #2 looks and acts a lot more like dad.

I'm not suggesting the validity or lack thereof of any claims, just explaining a position they may hold.

[BarTopDancer]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

Damn kids these days don't know how to Google. Why, in my day, we didn't HAVE Google. And we LIKED it!

I spent some time looking last night. I could not find the animated one. I was looking for a specific one that had a caption reading: Look it's the Pope.... OH CRAP!

I know someone here posted it soon after the election. At least I think LoT was around. It was on some board we were haunting.

[Tref]

Originally Posted by alphabassettgrrl

Historically true, but where we differ is that I don't feel it's required to trace that kind of ancestry to have a valid church.

Now, I have to be so careful with my words, Alphabassettgrrl, but if you follow what Jesus intended per the Gospels then it is important. It is very important. To a Catholic, this isn't just any ancestry. It is the ancestry of God's word.

But again, I am speaking as a Catholic. You are welcome to pray where-ever and with whomever you desire.

And to Katiesue, the moment they broke off from the Mother Church they broke that line. You can not change the rules, even a bit and be faithful to what was first preached 2000 years ago -- this according to the Church.

My feeling is that maybe I should break off my end of the discussion here. I do not want to give the impression I believe any one group is better then the next.

To quote the gospel of XTC

This is your life and you do what you want to do,
This is your life and you spend it all.
This is your life and you do what you want to do,
Just dont hurt nobody,
less of course they ask you,
In the garden of earthly delights

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by Tref

You can not change the rules, even a bit and be faithful to what was first preached 2000 years ago -- this according to the Church.

But, things HAVE been changed! The bible itself has gone through enormous changes (the fact that a book called "The Bible" didn't even exist 2000 years ago is just the tip of the iceberg). The "rules" have changed, morphed, developed and gone by the wayside over 2000+ years. Such is the nature of mankind.

[innerSpaceman]

Originally Posted by Tref

what Jesus intended, which was one church in His name – the Roman Catholic Church. Not several thousand separate entities preaching His word -- but one.

Another thread, my eye.

Please point out where Jesus "intended" this. If you mean it's what the writers of the Gospels intended, then say so. But don't go putting intentions into Jesus' mind that there's no evidence for.


If you have such evidence, by all means bring it forth.



ETA: Reading onward, it appears you are referring to the Gospels. We will have to simply agree to disagree that they have any bearing on what Jesus intended. (Which Gospel, for instance, would be the one where Jesus' true intentions were stated?)

[Alex]

I don't really see anything controversial in what Tref said. That is the view of the Catholic Church and has. officially, always been the view.

That is the view of most protestant churches: Jesus founded the church, over time the church was corrupted and our particular blend eventually recovered the original truth.

Thus my original reply above: well, duh.

It seems self evident that everybody who is not a Catholic will think these views are wrong. Or else they would be Catholic.