What else happened at Disneyland last Sunday?

[Kevy Baby]

And what does all this have to do with Jim Hill getting thrown out of DL on Ostara?

[mousepod]

Originally Posted by Kevy Baby

To inform the public how to cheat by utilizing the service portion of a web site (at no cost) and then buying the item they like from another source just so they can save a couple of dollars does not sound too ethical to me.

You haven't heard my show yet, so you have absolutely no idea how I'm going to frame it for the audience. Truth is never unethical. What I think is unethical, is LP performing a "service" and not telling their audience that they're charging more than 35% for the service. If they simply stated that they were marking the prices up that much and why their service was better and easier than DeliverEARS, no sweat. They don't. Instead, they rely on the ignorance of their readers to turn a profit.
I don't doubt that they're doing a service by showing fans pictures of what's available. However, I learned of the "Art of Disneyland" book from a message board. I knew about the EPCOT DVD from a CM in Florida. I saved $40 (not just "a couple of dollars") over LPs price by making a call to Florida. I'm not an insider, I'm informed.

This relates to Jim Hill because it's about someone taking money by "adding value" to something that is already available by the parent company.
IMHO, Jim screwed up by starting the tour where people who expected the official tour might get confused and join his.

Kevy, would it be more ethical if I started a thread and posted pictures of park product that I got from places other than LP and MS and told people to call Disney and avoid rip-off artists?

[€uroMeinke]

LP and MS have to deal with the same problem as Amazon.com. They have a great online catalogue, makes recommendations to me , alerts me when things I want become available. But if I really want immediate gratification, I stop at my local Barns & Noble or Tower Records. But Amazon has decided that making theses services free brings in enough revenue to support it.

LP and MS could try a different model and charge a subscription for their catalogue service, but that may drive away more customers.

Another value add for MS, is they do stock certain items and will do their best to get limited edition merchadise that wouldn't necessarily be available from Disney - though in those circumstances Ebay becomes the competition.

[mousepod]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

LP and MS have to deal with the same problem as Amazon.com. They have a great online catalogue, makes recommendations to me , alerts me when things I want become available. But if I really want immediate gratification, I stop at my local Barns & Noble or Tower Records. But Amazon has decided that making theses services free brings in enough revenue to support it.

Except Amazon is cheaper than Barnes & Noble or Tower. In your case, you are paying extra for the added value of instant gratification.

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

LP and MS could try a different model and charge a subscription for their catalogue service, but that may drive away more customers.

Another value add for MS, is they do stock certain items and will do their best to get limited edition merchadise that wouldn't necessarily be available from Disney - though in those circumstances Ebay becomes the competition.

Or they could explain to customers what their value is, and hope that an "educated consumer" would want to continue shopping from them.
Value of LP & MS:
- notification of new merchandise
- pictures of said merch
- limited edition availability
- easier to navigate than calling Disney direct

It's the fact that they 1) imply that the only other way to get the merch is to go to the parks, and 2) they have a huge surcharge without telling people exactly what the surcharge is, that makes them less than stellar in my book.

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by mousepod

Except Amazon is cheaper than Barnes & Noble or Tower. In your case, you are paying extra for the added value of instant gratification.

Don't forget shipping

[mousepod]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Don't forget shipping

Amazon offers free ground shipping on most orders over $25.

Don't forget sales tax at B&N or Tower

[€uroMeinke]

Originally Posted by mousepod

Amazon offers free ground shipping on most orders over $25.

Don't forget sales tax at B&N or Tower

Which, you are still by California law obligated to pay

But yeah - that "free shipping" has caused me many a time to add another item from my wish list to my intended order. Not that I'm ever able to leave either B&N or Tower with just one item either. I am weak, and the retailers are on to me.

[Not Afraid]

Originally Posted by mousepod

Except Amazon is cheaper than Barnes & Noble or Tower. In your case, you are paying extra for the added value of instant gratification.

Amazon also has no overhead of having stores to maintain. It make it easier for them to sell at a reduced prive. MP and LP pay full price for their merchandise at the park, an employee has to have an AP to get into the park regularly, then an employee has to prepare to ship the merchandise and pay for the associated costs of mailing and shipping. (I know a lot about one operation because I worked for the sister store.) Even at that, there is not a big profit involved in what they do.

Yes, smart people can look at the merchandise on MP or LP then call DeliverEars, but for them to advertise this fact would be the ruin of their business.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by mousepod

You haven't heard my show yet, so you have absolutely no idea how I'm going to frame it for the audience.

Other than:

Originally Posted by mousepod

Starting with the next MousePod, I'm going to suggest that all of my listeners who are interested in buying Park merchandise go to lp, check out what they want, and call Disney mail-order. Simple as that.

That's all the framework I need to believe that it is unethical. Take advantage of one service at no cost then buy elsewhere. In the grand sceme of things, not all *that* unethical, but unethical none-the-less.

Originally Posted by mousepod

Truth is never unethical.

Now this is an interesting statement. If I were to find out you home address, phone number, etc. and published it here, would that be unethical? I think it would be and therefore would not do it.

For my job, I work for a print broker. That means we "buy" printing services from companies and "sell" it to our customers. If my vendors approached my clients and told them for how much and where I was purchasing this from, not only would this be unethical, there would probably be basis for a lawsuit.

To make this more specific...

Originally Posted by mousepod

What I think is unethical, is LP performing a "service" and not telling their audience that they're charging more than 35% for the service. If they simply stated that they were marking the prices up that much and why their service was better and easier than DeliverEARS, no sweat. They don't. Instead, they rely on the ignorance of their readers to turn a profit.

Okay, if you think that the business practices of LP and MS are unethical, are you going to stand outside your local 7-11 to tell people they can buy most of the merchandise in the store much less expensively? And then go to that supermarket and tell them they can now get a lot of that merchandise even less expensively at Costco, Walmart, etc.?

Heck, for that matter, once you find the cheapest possible place to buy something, should that place be required to show how much they purchased said item for?

Should the local gas station be required to post where in the area you can purchase the same brand cheaper? Should employers be required to tell employees where they can get paid more for the same job (and employees be required to tell their employers how much less somebody is geting paid for doing the same job elsewhere?). Should Disney ticket sellers be required to tell the guests how much it costs to get into Knotts? Shall I go on?

You are perfectly entitled to inform people that they can purchase items they want for less at another place - happens all the time and is perfectly legit. This is a wonderful component of the free enterprise system: caveat emptor. but to 1) believe that what LP and MS are doing is "unethical" is ludicris, and 2) tell people how to usurp a system as has been inferred is unethical and hypocritical. You are perfectly entitled to do it, I just don't agree with it.

I don't really give a rip about MS and LP. I purchased one item from MS last year only because a friend told me they had it and I never saw it in the park (a Mickey trailer hitch cover). I didn't have to pay S/H because I made a local pickup. Other than that, I have never gone to either of these sites.

[mousepod]

You're missing my point.

1 - I have no intention of telling people to go to LP or MS and then call Disney. What I will tell people is that park merchandise can be bought at places other than theme parks. One place to get that stuff is through shopping services like LP or MS, where you have the benefit of internet shopping with pictures, but know that you'll pay a 35% markup. The other place is to call Disney direct. If people want to draw conclusions on how to shop, all the power to them. I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear earlier.

2 - The difference between all of your examples and the one at hand is the question of "common knowledge". Most consumers know that shopping clubs like Costco are cheap, and quickie-marts like 7-Eleven are expensive. LP calls itself "The #1 Site For Disney" - setting itself up as an authority on all things Disney, especially parks. In this case, a lie of omission costs you, the consumer, 35%.

As far as me standing outside the 7-Eleven and telling people to shop at Costco, that's silly. However, if I had an internet radio show that focused on electronics, for example, I would probably have no problem to tell my listeners to shop around and check out all of the digital cameras anywhere they could, and if they decided on a specific brand, make sure to check CostCo or onecall.com for the cheapest prices.

I would imagine that your company offers something to your customers that they couldn't get elsewhere. Whether that be the ability to run small orders or simply better customer service. If not, and you just take advantage of the fact that most people don't want to spend the energy to go to the Yellow Pages, well, that's an interesting ethics question in itself.