The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Alex

I must have missed a page, didn't see the back and forth with MBC (though you never answered when I asked the same thing a few pages back).

...

I just think you're dishonest in how you frame the objection. Your issue is not with young children being exposed to ideas they can't understand (what you said), your issue is the idea that the teacher would intrude on your territory in taking advantage of them ...

You also moved the goalposts. Initially you said you didn't trust Obama. Then you shifted that distrust to the teachers.

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In third grade we a required class activity was to read one article from the local newspaper and write one paragraph summarizing it and develop a scrapbook through the year. Am I correct that you would object to such an exercise since it exposed our young minds to all kinds of news and ideas (I can't remember if the oped page was included but I know everything else was)?

I wasn't trying to dodge your earlier question of me. In all likelihood I missed it as there has been a lot posted here in a short period of time.

I suppose i can't really disagree with your second point. Yes, at a young age, I am concerned about a teacher directly contradicting my moral leanings. Even political leanings. I don't see that as problematic. Once they get to a point of being able to debate and defend and reconsider abstract thought, I do not have a problem with it. I don't see that as unreasonable.

I do not think I moved the goal posts. I think early on (perhaps not my first post on the subject after someone else brought his school speech into the thread) I mentioned my problem with both. After I read the speech, I clearly stated I no longer had a problem with the speech in and of itself.

New thoughts an new ideas in a newspaper article? I'm not sure why you think I would object to that. What you described would be reading facts and summarizing. Even if it were an op ed, I would suspect my child would be doing such as homework and would be discussing it with me (I help my kids with their homework and review it every night).

[BarTopDancer]

Our Headline "DUH" of the day:

Census: Income fell sharply last year

Story here

[Gemini Cricket]

I hear what you're saying, Leo, but my children would be raised in a different way. I'd let them learn and hear what they wanted. It's what they do with what they learn that would grab my attention. As long as they're not hurting themselves or breaking the law, who they are is up to them. I would not deny my children access to something like a presidential speech. If it were any president speaking I would sit with my kid and discuss things with them after. But telling a kid 'no, you can't watch that' makes them think 'I'm going to see it no matter what now'.

I'm curious, why are their questions scary? I'm confused by that. When I am secure and content in my beliefs, things are rarely scary.

[Alex]

Now. Joe Wilson. What he did was rude, it was not the place or time for it.

That said, the left-side manufactured outrage is silly to watch too. Over the last few years I saw several times it seriously batted around that the president should be required to submit to a British parliament-style questions session before congress every so often. The sole purpose for wanting such a things seems to have been so that President Bush could be heckled (nobody ever seemed to think it would actually accomplish anything useful, though it did highlight how little most people understand the different between our system of government and parliamentary systems).

[Gemini Cricket]

I remember the Democrats clapping inappropriately during Bush's State of the Union speech when he brought up how they stopped his Social Security plans. Half of me frowned at what Wilson did, half of me smiled, same with the clapping.

Originally Posted by Alex

...though it did highlight how little most people understand the different between our system of government and parliamentary systems).

I don't know very much about the parliamentary system, I admit. But I do like watching the spontaneous back and forth. It's refreshing to see that than a polished, practiced speech. It's like doing improv, you have to think fast and honesty comes out of that lots of times.

[scaeagles]

Wilson was inappropriate and directed the debate away from the plan to how he was inappropriate. He was right to apologize, but the spin on this being something completely new is disingenuous at best.

[katiesue]

I don't get the paranoia about exposing your kids to other ideas, values, cultures, religions, other than my own. Maddie's Algebra teacher is Muslim (and I only know this because she wears the full headscarf etc). I have no issue with her being in her class. Maybe she will learn something about another country and religion. If her teachers were to tell her something I don't belive in, then we have a discussion about that's one way to look at it but here's how I see it.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by katiesue

I don't get the paranoia about exposing your kids to other ideas, values, cultures, religions, other than my own. Maddie's Algebra teacher is Muslim (and I only know this because she wears the full headscarf etc). I have no issue with her being in her class. Maybe she will learn something about another country and religion. If her teachers were to tell her something I don't belive in, then we have a discussion about that's one way to look at it but here's how I see it.

How old is Maddie? 8th grade (I guess that because of algebra)? I have no problem at that age level either.

I wouldn't have a problem if, in 3rd as my youngest is, a teacher said "Muslims worship a God called Allah and study a book called the Quran". OK - that's factual. I think it might be different if the teacher said "Allah is great. In fact, he is the true God and all infidels should be killed" - that might be different.

GC, again, once my kids are old enough and mature enough to consider, debate, and reasonably approach ideas vs. fact, I'm cool with it. My 8 and 10 years olds haven't reached that point yet. My 8 year old might be there before my 10 year old.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

GC, again, once my kids are old enough and mature enough to consider, debate, and reasonably approach ideas vs. fact, I'm cool with it. My 8 and 10 years olds haven't reached that point yet. My 8 year old might be there before my 10 year old.

If you make the decision to exclude your 8 year old from the accompanying lesson plan, and she (she, right?) asks, "Dad, why am I not doing the same homework as everyone else in my class?" would yuo answer honsetly with, "Because the assignment might include opinions that we don't agree with and don't think you should be learning about right now." If so, what do you think that teaches her about hearing opposing opinions?

[Strangler Lewis]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

If you make the decision to exclude your 8 year old from the accompanying lesson plan, and she (she, right?) asks, "Dad, why am I not doing the same homework as everyone else in my class?" would yuo answer honsetly with, "Because the assignment might include opinions that we don't agree with and don't think you should be learning about right now." If so, what do you think that teaches her about hearing opposing opinions?

We have discussions like that all the time about entertainment choices. I hope I wouldn't ever have to have one about a school project, but I wouldn't rule it out.