The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux) - Page 463

flippyshark · 09-13-2009, 07:16 PM

I also think the racist card is being played far too often by those criticizing the conservatives. Sure, it's justified in some cases, particularly with some of the more virulent protesters, but I think it's best to respond to the challenges that can actually be addressed with facts. Slinging a charge of racism is always a conversation ender, and the person who plays that card is essentially saying, eh, you're not even worth talking to. (that is true in the case of some of the most virulent protesters, of course.) But it's a lot more useful to keep the conversation focused on facts, especially since both sides appear to have their own sets of facts.

Just for starters, I think an awful lot of the tea party faction need to consult some good dictionaries and history books. Judging from their signs, they don't have very good working definitions of fascism, socialism, communism or nazism, and seem to find them all interchangeable.

I know a few libertarians who are part of these protests, all educated and very smart. I'm surprised that they seem to be cool with the nonsense, jingoism and sometimes threatening rhetoric coming from the more (*ahem*) rural participants in these events. ("We didn't bring guns ... THIS TIME") Strange bedfellows.

Gemini Cricket · 09-13-2009, 10:05 PM

I honestly do believe that a lot of these protests against Obama's health care plans have more to do with hate of Obama the black president than the health care issue itself. I don't see a lot of people of color at these marches. In the vast majority of the footage that I have seen on CNN, MSNBC, Fox "News" the protesters are white. I think people need to get over it, he's president, let it go.
It's like the people who hide behind their religion to discriminate against gay marriage. They don't give a sh!t about marriage, they hate gay people. You can say it's one thing and mean another.

wendybeth · 09-13-2009, 10:38 PM

I agree completely, GC.

BarTopDancer · 09-13-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

I honestly do believe that a lot of these protests against Obama's health care plans have more to do with hate of Obama the black president than the health care issue itself.

And I bet a lot of those same white people voted for him to begin with!

He wasn't elected by a slim margin.

JWBear · 09-13-2009, 11:12 PM

Trust me, BTD... None of these people voted for him.

BarTopDancer · 09-13-2009, 11:19 PM

What we have doesn't work. Something needs to be done. What it is, I don't know but what the current Administration is trying to do is fix something that is broken. I get resistance to change - but Obama's campaign promised "change", he was elected and now people are pitching a fit over "change". You can't have it both ways.

I've been on all spectrum of insurance: "good insurance" (Blue Cross), "government insurance" (MediCal) and no insurance.

When I had no insurance I was lucky enough to live in a city that had a stellar community clinic where I could get excellent care for little to no money. Not all cities are like that.

The worst was MediCal, which I paid nothing for and few doctors would take it. They wouldn't cover my allergy medication without a fight, or the few antibiotics that my Dr. prescribed because I am extremely allergic to nearly everything out there (and anything that ends in 'cillin').

"Good insurance" isn't always good. I've had the same fights with them over coverage.

Because of my experience with MediCal I am hesitant to see a truly "government" program. But something has to give.

So while what I have now, or will have in a few months will be "good insurance" I am well aware that it's far from perfect and millions of others aren't as fortunate, and are uninsured.

JWBear · 09-14-2009, 08:37 AM

You can thank our "wonderful" State Legislature for the fvcked up mess that is Medi-Cal. It's more an example of how bad things are in California rather than what a federal public option plan would be.

Medicare works just fine (except for Part D - W and a Republican controlled Congress's attempt to kill off the old and disabled through pure confusion and frustration).

CoasterMatt · 09-14-2009, 08:45 AM

Well, I figured this would be as good a place as any for this...

I've got a new picture for the happy right wing conservative message boards-

DO NOT VISIT THE URL AT WORK, DO NOT VISIT THAT URL AT ALL (it may harm your retinas)

scaeagles · 09-14-2009, 08:58 AM

Ummm....why is that a problem when the same things were done with images of Bush during his administration? Was it OK because Bush was white? Is it only a problem because it is being done to Obama?

JWBear · 09-14-2009, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Ummm....why is that a problem when the same things were done with images of Bush during his administration? Was it OK because Bush was white? Is it only a problem because it is being done to Obama?

The difference is that the Bush/Hitler comparisons were not supported, either implicitly or with silence, by Democratic Party leaders.

Can you say the same about the Obama/Hitler comparisons? Thought not.

09-13-2009, 07:16 PM	#1
flippyshark Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 2,852	I also think the racist card is being played far too often by those criticizing the conservatives. Sure, it's justified in some cases, particularly with some of the more virulent protesters, but I think it's best to respond to the challenges that can actually be addressed with facts. Slinging a charge of racism is always a conversation ender, and the person who plays that card is essentially saying, eh, you're not even worth talking to. (that is true in the case of some of the most virulent protesters, of course.) But it's a lot more useful to keep the conversation focused on facts, especially since both sides appear to have their own sets of facts. Just for starters, I think an awful lot of the tea party faction need to consult some good dictionaries and history books. Judging from their signs, they don't have very good working definitions of fascism, socialism, communism or nazism, and seem to find them all interchangeable. I know a few libertarians who are part of these protests, all educated and very smart. I'm surprised that they seem to be cool with the nonsense, jingoism and sometimes threatening rhetoric coming from the more (ahem) rural participants in these events. ("We didn't bring guns ... THIS TIME") Strange bedfellows.
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09-13-2009, 10:05 PM	#2
Gemini Cricket ... Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 13,244	I honestly do believe that a lot of these protests against Obama's health care plans have more to do with hate of Obama the black president than the health care issue itself. I don't see a lot of people of color at these marches. In the vast majority of the footage that I have seen on CNN, MSNBC, Fox "News" the protesters are white. I think people need to get over it, he's president, let it go. It's like the people who hide behind their religion to discriminate against gay marriage. They don't give a sh!t about marriage, they hate gay people. You can say it's one thing and mean another.
	Submit to Quotes

09-13-2009, 10:38 PM	#3
wendybeth Nevermind Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,847	I agree completely, GC. __________________
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09-13-2009, 11:12 PM	#5
JWBear Worn Romantic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Long Beach California Posts: 8,435	Trust me, BTD... None of these people voted for him. __________________ Unrestrained frivolity will lead to the downfall of modern society.
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09-13-2009, 11:19 PM	#6
BarTopDancer Prepping... Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Here, there, everywhere Posts: 11,405	What we have doesn't work. Something needs to be done. What it is, I don't know but what the current Administration is trying to do is fix something that is broken. I get resistance to change - but Obama's campaign promised "change", he was elected and now people are pitching a fit over "change". You can't have it both ways. I've been on all spectrum of insurance: "good insurance" (Blue Cross), "government insurance" (MediCal) and no insurance. When I had no insurance I was lucky enough to live in a city that had a stellar community clinic where I could get excellent care for little to no money. Not all cities are like that. The worst was MediCal, which I paid nothing for and few doctors would take it. They wouldn't cover my allergy medication without a fight, or the few antibiotics that my Dr. prescribed because I am extremely allergic to nearly everything out there (and anything that ends in 'cillin'). "Good insurance" isn't always good. I've had the same fights with them over coverage. Because of my experience with MediCal I am hesitant to see a truly "government" program. But something has to give. So while what I have now, or will have in a few months will be "good insurance" I am well aware that it's far from perfect and millions of others aren't as fortunate, and are uninsured. __________________ Spork is the new MacGyver Postcards From My Edge
	Submit to Quotes

09-14-2009, 08:37 AM	#7
JWBear Worn Romantic Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Long Beach California Posts: 8,435	You can thank our "wonderful" State Legislature for the fvcked up mess that is Medi-Cal. It's more an example of how bad things are in California rather than what a federal public option plan would be. Medicare works just fine (except for Part D - W and a Republican controlled Congress's attempt to kill off the old and disabled through pure confusion and frustration). __________________ Unrestrained frivolity will lead to the downfall of modern society.
	Submit to Quotes

09-14-2009, 08:58 AM	#9
scaeagles I LIKE! Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 7,819	Ummm....why is that a problem when the same things were done with images of Bush during his administration? Was it OK because Bush was white? Is it only a problem because it is being done to Obama?
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