The "Inception" Thread

[innerSpaceman]

Ah gotcha, this makes much more sense. So they somehow use the tech to get the mark into the dream of someone else. That explains a lot.

But does that mean the dreamer can't proceed to the next level and has to be the one "awake" and thus caretaker for any further levels? If so ... why?



Get me Chris Nolan on the phone!


Need to see it again.

[Alex]

Not sure if it is absolutely required that the dreamer of Level A not go to Level B but with the rules presented it would make sense that you'd probably not want to do that if you can avoid it.

As an example, even though Fischer's consciousness was on Level 3 (and then Limbo 4) his protective projections were still going after Yusef on Level 1 and Arthur on Level 2. If Yusef and Arthur had advanced down the levels with everybody else it would leave behind a group of deeply unconscious people to be slaughtered (under normal circumstances that would just interupt the mission, under these circumstances send everybdy to limbo).

And even though they didn't know Fischer had defensive training, they still knew they'd need to leave someone behind because the sedative required a simultaneous kick at each level and so someone needed to be there to coordinate it.

As for why it has to be the dreamer who stays behind, I don't think this is addressed specifically but the logic I see is: if the architecture for the level is in the mind of the dreamer, what happens to that architecture if the dreamer becomes unconscious to that level when he goes down one more. It doesn't seem illogical that it would either disappear completely making the next level down now Level 1 or it would become otherwise distorted beyond comprehension.

[innerSpaceman]

But the architecture of the dream is not determined by the dreamer; it's determined by the architect in each and every level, no matter who the designated dreamer is. But i can kinda see the fuzzy logic of sorta common sensical that the designated dreamer of one level stays at that level so it retains some sort of squishy consistency.

Of course, any level seems always to be majorly affected by what's going on in the level above (i.e, zero gravity in the hotel level while the van falls off the bridge in the rain level) - so I'm not sure how much effect the designated dreamer is having.

But maybe their level retains the consistency of jello instead of disintegrating into breadcrumbs if they stay there and don't go further down the rabbit hole.

[alphabassettgrrl]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

I don't remember my own dreams very often, or in great detail. Do people have dreams in which they are not a character, or in which they are missing from some scenes that feature other people??

I have "observer" dreams frequently. I don't seem to be any of the characters.

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

On that note, another resonant concept - in fact, the underpinning of the entire move - is that there are dreams within dreams. I daresay most of us have experienced that. I know I have.

Yeah. It's kind of cool to wake up and then wake up again.

I need to see this movie.

[Alex]

Originally Posted by innerSpaceman

But the architecture of the dream is not determined by the dreamer;

Yeah, this is the fuzziness I have trouble incorporating. We are shown absolutely nothing about how this happens. How people are put into a shared dream state, how an architecture is imposed on that state (is it something technical or did Ariadne just show each dreamer all the details of a map and since they were constantly dreaming they could use it). How much of what we see was actually fully fleshed out by the architect, how much comes from the dreamer, and how much comes from the other consciousnesses in the dream. Why does only only one person seem to have projections in the dream when their are other "foreigners" in the dream as well? Is it just that they've trained themselves to keep their subconscious out? In the dream with Ariadne when she makes the mirrors, why did Cobb's projections only attack when she tweaked things even though Cobb was entirely aware the whole time that it was just a dream (in other words, what changed that triggered his subconscious to attack)?

Also, since it is shown in that dream that Ariadne can physically change the dream world ad hoc and in situ, why didn't she do this even a little bit at key moments in the movie. Make a medical kit appear for treating Saito, create a tunnel that would lead directly to the safe in the snow level.

[innerSpaceman]

Yeah, the plot holes are getting wider. They could have solved that by saying it's harder to change on the fly the deeper levels you go. I hate when holes can be fixed by a line of script, but no one bothers.

At least it was somewhat clear that no one person controls the dream. In the rain world, Cobb's freight train rudely interrupted. He was not supposed to contribute his brutish two cents. But, yeah, it was never explained why you can change things in a practice dream, but not in the real thing. In fact, for all her brilliance in practice, she kinda sucked when it came time to play in the show.

[Alex]

They did explain that her shifting things around made the dream less stable and that at each level down the instability would be greater (which is why a special sedative was needed).

But still, when the situation was so completely dire at the end I don't see what the downside would have been.

[innerSpaceman]

Yeah, especially since all they had to do to solve that question, and have a payoff for her character was to have her create that special tunnel there and then, instead of explaining it was there in her design all along.

Maybe she was just being modest, but that doesn't help the audience root for her, or feel she was worthy as our surrogate for the entire frelling film.



Where's that call from Chris Nolan? I need to have a word with him.

[Eliza Hodgkins 1812]

The movie works for me regardless of its interpretation, which is part of what makes it a success, I think. That said, my favorite interpretation (and one that validates the film as a dream from beginning to end, with good reason and without losing any of the characters' significance) is penned by Devin at CHUD.

[mousepod]

I like Devin's interpretation.