Pledge of Allegiance ruled unconstitutional

[Morrigoon]

Originally Posted by Motorboat Cruiser

Well, if nothing else, "a god" sure seems to imply monotheism. That leaves out Hindus, Native Americans, Wiccans, and to some extent, Buddhists. Shouldn't a country that professes a love of equality and democracy have a pledge that is as all-inclusive as possible in regard to personal faith? Or, are you less of an american if you don't believe in one god. That is what George Bush Sr. seems to think and I strongly disagree.

Nothing about a lack of government getting involved in religion keeps people from practicing their faith in this country. Government and religion can both co-exist just fine. There is no good reason for them to intertwine and plenty of bad ones.

Excellent point (which is why I was careful to tiptoe around the topic of polytheists in my arguments).

[€uroMeinke]

I just don't see why we need a pledge in ths first place - none-the-less have it recited by people too young to understand it, or even commit to it's ideals. Loyalty oaths are worthless, let's dump this one in its entirety.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

Loyalty oaths are worthless, let's dump this one in its entirety.

I don't see a reason for it either, quite frankly. I would be interested in hearing other posters feelings as to why the pledge is necessary at all.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Yeah, not a big pledge fan in general myself. If the ideals of America are all that, why is it necessary to brainwash our children in such an institutional way? Shouldn't merely living here and witnessing its greatness do the trick.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

If the ideals of America are all that, why is it necessary to brainwash our children in such an institutional way?

It has always struck me as akin to brainwashing as well. The "under God" line only strengthens that perception for me.

[scaeagles]

I'll speak up.

I have always thought the name of the pledge was a misnomer. The flag is a symbol, but the key is "and to the republic for which it stands".

Our republic is unique in the world. No other state has anything close to the freedoms provided in our Constitution, on which our republic is based. We have multitudes of cutures represented here in mass, as one of only two countries in the world that have immigration policies (the other being Austrailia).

I think it is important to recognize this. I think it is important to acknowledge that it is the rights gauranteed to us are because of the Constitution and the republic based upon it. I think it is important to acknowledge, and I make no apologies for this, that we have the best country in the world. I say this because (and I know some will come in and want to talk about homosexual marriage or drugs) we have the most free country in the world. No other country gaurantees freedom of speech, freedom of the press, the right to bear arms, etc, etc, etc. Because of this, anyone can be whomever they wish. They can make whatever of themselves they wish.

While it is the people that accomplish this, not the government, it is the form of government we have that allows for it.

I think it important to acknowledge and instill a sense of nationalism in everyone. I do not fear nationalism. When we start pledging allegiance to a leader, I'll worry. But to pledge allegiance to our country and the freedoms gauranteed by it reminds us all that in spite of that massive diversity represented by the populace, we are Americans and have a common goal and purpose - to maintain that freedom and diversity for all -"with liberty and justice for all".

Go ahead and say that we don't have complete freedom or liberty or justice for all. But simply saying the pledge instills the principles.

We are not perfect in trying to instill those values. Our government is not perfect. As Churchill said, "Democracy is the worst form of government - except for all the others."

[Ghoulish Delight]

Whereas I see that kind of loyalty oath as rather anathema to the ideals of freedom of thought. If it's worthy of my loyalty, I will give it. I don't need to be chanted into loyalty.

[Name]

I will concede that we are "one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." But saying we are all "under God" is insulting to those that have alternate belief systems that do not have an entity(or diety) with the name "God."

[Betty]

Why do we need the pledge?

I suppose we don't *need* it... but I tend to get a teensy bit choked up when saying the pledge, along with so many others in a very large group for one reason or another... Perhaps I'm just sappy in that way. When so many people say it and "pledge" themselves to a country that instills these ideals, it just makes me get a lump in my throat.

In reality, I'm a bit more cynical. Something about that deep voice of so many people speaking as one and saying what I truly hope to be true - even with the "under God" part.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

But to pledge allegiance to our country and the freedoms gauranteed by it reminds us all that in spite of that massive diversity represented by the populace, we are Americans and have a common goal and purpose - to maintain that freedom and diversity for all -"with liberty and justice for all".

It seems to me that you may have just inadvertently made an argument in favor of keeping the words "under god" from the pledge. "Freedom and diversity for all" doesn't seem to jibe well with "One nation, under God".