Fate and Destiny: a philosophy thread

[Cadaverous Pallor]

I like to believe in Karma because I like the idea that everyone gets what they deserve. Cause and eventual effect. Doesn't mean that I have any evidence that it's real, and I wouldn't debate anyone on it, but it's a happy idea, and it makes sense to me.

I think this relates to what people are talking about "wiring". When my faith in fairness falters, I get depressed. I've seen enough injustice in this world to be really dismayed by it. I need to believe in the triumph of truth and understanding. Otherwise, this world would suck too much for me to feel good about living. I think this is part of what people refer to when they say "I just know God exists." I just know that things turn out correctly, eventually.

I'd venture to guess that those that are perfectly happy with an Atheistic view are also happy with a world that simply is, with only the observable laws of nature as we understand them to govern it.

I'd say we accept our own realities that we are most comfortable in.

[Not Afraid]

They live inside my head.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

They live inside my head.

Do they come to you in your bed?

[Alex]

I'd venture to guess that those that are perfectly happy with an Atheistic view are also happy with a world that simply is, with only the observable laws of nature as we understand them to govern it.

I wouldn't say that I'm happy with the way the universe is, just accepting of the fact that wishing the universe and life have purpose doesn't give it one. But a lot of people say that to me, don't I find it depressing to think that the universe just is what it is. That we are incapable of making things better. That things will get worse or better (as we perceive worse and better) due to essentially random interactions of physical laws? I don't know how to respond, because it really doesn't bother me. It doesn't make me happy but it doesn't depress me either.


I am also accepting of the fact that not everything is knowable. It may be that one day we'll understand all the physical laws and properties of the universe. It may be that the human brain is physically incapable of comprehending certain things that would be necessary for such understanding. I just don't deify that which isn't or can't be known.

I see a lot of "I believe this because I would prefer it be true" in people's faiths and I must admit it confuses me. I'm not saying you have to justify it (at least not in this thread; when people insist on real world results from of their faith and worship then I do tend to request supporting evidence), just that I can't fathom it. Lani is this way. She believes in an afterlife. Ask her why and she'll say something along the lines of "because I like the idea of it" or "because I don't like the thought that we just stop." She's not religious, just hopeful.

[€uroMeinke]

We all have to figure out what we're going to do in the face of the unknown, so we all need beliefs of some fashion. While I suppose there is some value of attaining a Zen like comfort with the now and pure being - to paraphrase an I <3 Huckabee's line, the is the inevitability of Human Drama to draw us in. We have a corporeal experience that has wants and needs to be satisfied and so we need to make decissions on how we will navigate our lives - we don't know our futures, yet we continually move in that direction (or such is my experience ).

I'm comfortable with the unknowable, and titilated with the absurd - so I'm a shoe in with the existentialists and dadaist of the world. There just is too much to laugh about to get depressed about something I have no control over.

Perhaps the benefit of Faith, is that it allows you to pass along those things you have no control over to an entity that presumably does. You no longer have to worry, and can be relieved that someone is doing something about the perceived injustice, evil, and bad hair days of the world.

[lizziebith]

Don't laugh, but I used to "pray" for faith -- but it has never come. So I have to believe that I'm just not wired that way. Still and all I think I do okay without it. I have a hyperdeveloped sense of right and wrong, and I'm the goofiest, ****-eyed-est optimist I know. And I don't believe in an afterlife or reward of any kind for it. It's just the only way I know how to be. Goodness is its own reward, and life is infinitely interesting. I don't think there's a plan, and my story will only become a narrative superimposed upon my life, if anyone cares, after it's done.

I take only memories, and leave only footprints. I ramble therefore I am.

EDIT: Hilarious! Cockeyed got bleeped!

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by €uroMeinke

...Perhaps the benefit of Faith, is that it allows you to pass along those things you have no control over to an entity that presumably does. You no longer have to worry, and can be relieved that someone is doing something about the perceived injustice, evil, and bad hair days of the world.

Now, I have a different view in that regards. I think that it's much easier to just believe that it ends and is entirely over with your last breath. No more worries, nada, and you won't care, because your power source has been switched off and you no longer think. You no longer are.

Belief in the continuance after death of one's self brings with it a whole new set of responsibilities. If you believe in reincarnation, you are living your current life in accordance with how you want to live your next life. If you belong to the typical Christian-type religion, you are encouraged to follow a lifestyle that fits within your church's definition of 'righteous', or face going south for eternity. There are few religions that don't have a code or set of requirements one must follow in order to gain whatever it is they are promising in the afterlife. It seems to me that being an atheist must be freeing in a way, although I'm sure it has it's downside as well. (Mind you, I am not talking about behavior, because most atheists and agnostics I know are the most ethical and moral people around- they don't need to be threatened with eternal damnation to be good, they just are). It's also harder to reconcile injustice, because we often don't see karmic payback in this life and people get away with horrible things all the time. This probably causes more crisis of faith than just about anything else, especially since we aren't allowed to go vigilante and stuff.

[Not Afraid]

They’re coming to arrest me, oh no.

[Moonliner]

The "Big Picture" eh?

Who are we, why are we, what is god and what is fate?

Wow not easy to address is it? But little that is worth doing is easy....

I've always considered myself an Atheist. The idea that the "Universe" (aka God, Allah, Buda, etc...) gives a rats posterior about me, who I am and what I do always struck me as way way too optimistic. The universe just is.

The same with fate and predetermination. If it's predetermined it had to be planned and frankly who has the time for that sort of thing? Some all powerful being is out there working to infinity so that today, for no apparent reason, I choose to put on my left shoe before my right rather than the other way round? I can't buy into that.

However it cannot be denied that many very reasonable people seem to swear by the higher power concept in one form or another. So it does seem a bit rude (not to mention egotistical) to just blow them ALL off as delusional.

So trying to be a "polite" atheists would seem to lead one down the path to being an agnostic but I've always seen agnostics as wishy-washy and frankly a bit on the sissy side. Not able to decide one way or another. I'd never make a good agnostic so I had to pass on that.

Which left me looking for a reasonable universal doctrine that I can practice. One that I can live with inside myself and at the same time not be perceived by the faithful as attacking their beliefs with my beliefs. It took some time, but I finally decided. I'm an Apatheist. God? No God? Fate or just luck? I don't really care. Let's talk about where we'd like to go to lunch instead.

[Not Afraid]

Was it fate or destiny that I downloaded Cheap Trick's "Dream Police" from iTunes tonight?