"Liberal Queer"

[wendybeth]

I can see both sides here, but as a parent, I would never ever say what he has said, even if I believed it. Never. It's a public condemnation of your own child, and to do that, yet say you love them.......Doesn't sound like love to me. I'm not in their place, so I can't say what they really feel, but I just know I will always love my daughter, no matter what, and I would never say or do what he has. Perhaps he is able to reconcile his feelings with the "Love the sinner, hate the sin", stuff, but personally I think that whole mode of thinking is a crock. Kind of along the lines of "I'm not perfect- just forgiven", which many Christians take as a license to do rotten things to others, so long as they say "WHoops- sorry, God!" in their prayers at night.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by wendybeth

I can see both sides here, but as a parent, I would never ever say what he has said, even if I believed it. Never. It's a public condemnation of your own child, and to do that, yet say you love them.......Doesn't sound like love to me.

Keyes has been around a lot longer than his 19 year old daughter has been a lesbian (assuming this wasn't an issue until maybe 6 years ago? Don't know when it was "discovered"). He has been saying the same thing for a long time. So it's OK to say something is wrong until someone you know and love - like your child - participates in things that you have long professed are wrong? That would be the height of hypocrisy - "It was wrong until the issue came into my family, but now it isn't."

Actually, I think it takes strength of character on the part of Keyes to maintain his stance in with the incredible public scrutiny.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

That would be the height of hypocrisy - "It was wrong until the issue came into my family, but now it isn't."

Well, for many people it becomes a moment of, "Oh wait, you mean that these aren't evil people and the downfall of society?"

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Keyes has been around a lot longer than his 19 year old daughter has been a lesbian (assuming this wasn't an issue until maybe 6 years ago? Don't know when it was "discovered"). He has been saying the same thing for a long time. So it's OK to say something is wrong until someone you know and love - like your child - participates in things that you have long professed are wrong? That would be the height of hypocrisy - "It was wrong until the issue came into my family, but now it isn't."

Actually, I think it takes strength of character on the part of Keyes to maintain his stance in with the incredible public scrutiny.

I get what you are saying, but it's easy to take a stance on something and to see only black and white, until the subject strikes closer to home. That personalizes it, and one would be expected to revaluate in this situation. I know, because it has happened in our family. A very close relative belongs to a religion that demands you turn your back on homosexual family members. SHe did not, and refuses to. She admits she doesn't understand it, but she'll never turn her back on this person, and she loves her with all her heart. She is also much more sensitive about others comments on the subject. This person changed her mind on how she viewed homosexuality, largely due to the fact that it became personal.

At the same time, if this is truly how he feels, then he has the courage of his convictions and I respect that.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

FYI - GD is right about my father. He can be a total pompus prejudiced ass. We've had some doozy arguments about the big issues. I know he loves me, yet thinks that I'm part of the problem with the world today, calling me a yuppie liberal behind my back, a grevious offense in that house. And conversely, I don't like his attitudes or behavior, in fact believe he's a hate-mongerer, yet I still love him, regardless. Hate the sin, not the sinner.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

FYI - GD is right about my father.

Your views can/could change. So could his. But if he had a problem with you if you were a lesbian, could you still love him? I know a little about you and I think you could. However, I am not that strong of a person to say I could.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

Your views can/could change. So could his.

Sorry babe, you don't understand. My father sees the world in black and white. He spits out the word "liberal" only as an insult, even though GD has always used the word to describe himself (and he really does like GD). He talks freely of how it was homosexuality that brought down Greece and Rome and that it will bring down America. His views on Arabs are so racist I'm totally embarrassed to even recount them. Anyone, and I mean anyone, that disagrees with his world view is to be yelled at and told that they are for death and destruction. He's condescending and judgemental and cruel in arguments. He's said all kinds of horrible things about my views, asserting that I'm anti-American, that it's people like me that are undermining freedom, that I have no morals....

The fact that he thinks I'm completely fooled by the liberal media and swayed by a bad crowd hurts a lot. Especially since I've always shown myself to be pretty smart. In essence, he doesn't approve of my life, or at least, the underpinnings of my life. It hurts.

But we've worked around it.

Believe me, he's done his worst. And yet, he loves me, that much is abundantly clear. We don't talk politics often, really. I do love him and love being with him, as long as the conversation stays away from certain topics. He can be so much fun. We both know that there are ways for us to get along and that it's definitely worth it.

I hate his sins. But I love him. I know he'll never change, he'll breed hate and fear wherever he goes...but I love him anyway.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Cadaverous Pallor

My father sees the world in black and white...

I hear ya. Both my parents are like that.

But like you said, you can turn it off the political talk when you two are together. But when someone doesn't like who you are, you can't just turn that off and it's very hard not to talk about it. I mean, if I tried, I'd have nothing to talk about without mentioning something Ralphie and I did together.
I'm not sure if I'm being clear.
Let's say your dad wanted you to be a boy. Black and white again. Resents you every time he sees you cause you're not a boy. How do you make that work? I see being me as being the same thing.

[Nephythys]

Seems to me she is certain of her fathers love.

I still love how quick people are to call people homophobes because they disapprove of the lifestyle/behavior/whatever- I don't think they are in the least bit afraid of gay people.

And how fast some people are to label, when they themselves shrug off labels angrily when they are applied to them- and judge when they claim to think that judging others is wrong-and make assumptions, but are angry when people assume about them-

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Nephythys

.

I still love how quick people are to call people homophobes because they disapprove of the lifestyle/behavior/whatever- I don't think they are in the least bit afraid of gay people.

Just wanted to point out that the definition of homophobia is a fear or hatred of homosexuality. You don't have to be afraid of a gay person to be a homophobe.