Black or African-American?

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Originally Posted by Morrigoon

Ask and ye shall receive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

As used in the United States, "caucasian" simply refers to skin color not region of origin. In Europe "caucasian" refers to people from that region.

How the name for that region came be used as the descriptive term for white people is an interesting bit of racist science history. Without going into details, the term was used because that's where early 19th science though the skull features of northern Europeans would ultimately be traced.

Before I even got to Alex's post I was reading this.

Originally Posted by Blumenbach, a "Scientist"

Caucasian variety - I have taken the name of this variety from Mount Caucasus, both because its neighborhood, and especially its southern slope, produces the most beautiful race of men, I mean the Georgian; and because all physiological reasons converge to this, that in that region, if anywhere, it seems we ought with the greatest probability to place the autochthones (birth place) of mankind.

I swear, I'm almost insulted that my supposed grouping was created due to such subjectively prejudiced pseudo-science. I'm not insulted by much, either, but I'm rather horrified that I've been putting "one of the beautiful people" on every form I've filled out.

I know it doesn't really mean that any more, but the origin leaves me with a sullied feeling. I'd rather be called white.

In that regard, I actually dig the idea of calling myself Eastern European, though that's only half my ancestry. I identify as an Eastern European Jewish American, I guess. Not that it matters.

[AllyOops!]

Remember the "flesh" coloured crayon? I found that to be narrow-minded. "Flesh" was a pale peach colour.

Having said that, I keep things in the honest vein & just fill out "dumbass" on all of my forms. You'd be surprised how many jobs I don't get.

[Alex]

We all have the same color flesh. We just have different color skin.

Personally I don't "identify" myself by my ancestors at all. The fact that my maternal grandfather was born in Norway is of zero interest to me and how I live my life. I'm no more a Kansan because my paternal grandparents were born there than I am a German because my great-great-great-great-great-granparents were born there. If it turns out that my great-grandmother was actually Malaysian, that makes me no more Asian.

My skin is "white" because my ancestors were white. I am not German because they were German. Ethnicity, race, and nationality are not passed through DNA.

Plus, pretty much all groups assume their look is the most beautiful. Is it Koreans that have a folktale about how when God was finishing the people of the earth, the white people came out of the oven too soon, the black people were in too long, but the Asians were just right? (I know I've heard that somewhere but now it will turn out to be from some horrible source.)

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by Alex Stroup

My skin is "white" because my ancestors were white. I am not German because they were German. Ethnicity, race, and nationality are not passed through DNA.

No, but who you were raised by tends to matter. I doubt it's coincidence that both I and my sister ended up with spouses whose families are from Chicago (our family is from Chicago), even though neither she nor I were raised there or had even visited there. As a matter of fact, of the 4 of us (myself, my wife, my sister, and her husband), only my brother in law was actually raised in Chicago. But there is no doubt that part of the reason we we all get along so well is a certain amount of commonality based on the Chicago connection. It's a cultural thing.

That's why I still, and likely will always, identify as "eastern European Jew", even though I've never been to Eastern Europe and I'm 3 generations removed from anyone who lived in Europe and am closer to agnostic than a practicing Jew. Because I know that when I meet someone else connected to an eastern European ancestor, there is a high likelihood that we will share a certain commonality of culture.

Culture, race, ethnicity, and nationality are imprecise, overlapping, and routinely misused. But they are also quite interleaved. It's true that in the end, culture is the main thread that binds any people together. It just happens that the other "traits" are often a convenient shorthand, imprecise as they may be.

[blueerica]

Really, it's about how we identify ourselves, right?

I was raised by my very Japanese Grandmother. Though I identify myself as Caucasian, there is a part of my upbringing that is very much Japanese, as untraditional as it may be considered by anyone. Though I have difficulty speaking Japanese, I still understand a great deal of it, and the rice and tofu was the "meat and potatoes" of my upbringing. Please, give me meat and potatoes! (OK, so I do like rice and tofu, too....)

Race or no, there are things we've come to understand, know and respect about one another that are a product of our experiences, whether they're from our childhood or from our adulthood. They affect who we choose as a mate, who we choose as friends; they affect how we think and feel, as logical as we may be from time to time (some of us more than others). I think it's pretty truthful to what I've come to know.

Race remains a mere identifier, only there when a simpler term isn't available (IMHO).

[innerSpaceman]

And I've recently been wondering why, despite having 50 or so active friend and acquaintenships .... everyone I know is white. There's an Asian or two in there. Lots of straights and gays mixed. But no blacks. No Latinos. No Middle Easterners.

Is it a matter of staying among my own kind? Or is it simply that only whites (and a spattering of Asians) have been drawn to Disneyland, The Renaisance Faire, Rocky Horror and Star Wars?

I live in a city that's the melting pot of the modern world. But no melting is ever going to go on if people raised in differing cultures have zero common interests.


Interestingly, if I'd been a normal guy into sports - - I might have more interracial friends. But perhaps a lack of gay pals.




Sorry, I know this is not really the topic at hand, but it's been on my mind of late ... and this is the LoT thread where I can squeeze it in most plausibly.

[mousepod]

Good point, iSm. I've been putting together the Song of the South episode of the MousePod, and to prepare, I've been reading many threads on various boards and listening to other podcasts (there were two SotS "Zip-a-dee-doo-pods"). The conversation about the controversy surrounding the movie is similar to this thread - a bunch of mostly well-meaning, mostly white folks talking about what black people might find offensive. I decided to include some first-hand perspectives from black people, and I realized that while that a great percentage of my work associates are black, I currently don't have any black friends. I'm not sure if it has to do with common interests - I do know that it feels odd...

[Alex]

I don't have any black friends, but I do'nt particularly care that I do'nt have any black friends. I don't have any Canadian friends either. Nor Arabic.

I have very few friends (less than a dozen, I'd say) but I've accumulated them randomly and they are what they are.

When I first started this reply I actually began with "all my friends are white as well" but then I realized "no...Lani's Asian." And then, "no...Shannon's Puerto Rican." and then "no...Kevin's Pacific Islander (Hawaiian)" and "of course, Paola's Mexican" and so on. While none are black, my circle of friends is actually pretty diverse but their race is so far down the list of relevant characteristics I don't think I'd ever noticed before just how diverse it is.

What categories go into having a properly diverse circle of friends. Is Stas, my guy from from Russia diverse or just white?

[Not Afraid]

I very rarely think about the ethnicity of my friends. It seems we are all just a munch of mutts anyways.

[blueerica]

Huh... I'm quite the mutt and haven't really paused to think about who my friends are. My closest tend to be white, asian and latino, but that probably has more to do with who lives around me. At school, I have friends of all races, but I don't think it's something I've chosen... I'm just a product of my surroundings.

Besides, who actually goes out of their way to make friends with a certain "race" of people? Well, I'm sure people do, but that's downright creepy.