Katrina Response Mismanagement

[scaeagles]

Thought this was a good piece -

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-293598c.html

[SacTown Chronic]

Well golly, there sure is plenty of blame to go around.

Are you Bush apologists gonna care about the performance of the state and local goverments of Louisiana if an epic natural disaster (or terrorist attack) hits your state? Fvck no.

Is Bin Laden laughing at the response of the state and local governments?

As if on cue, Karl Rove shoves his hand up Bush's ass and millions of Bush enablers start parroting the company line.

And let's not forget the cronyism and complete disregard for the safety of the American public that led to FEMA being in the shape it's in.

"Fire Brown" they say.

For what...being who he is? And what exactly will that solve? The same incompetent CEO that hired Allbaugh, who begat Brown, will just appoint another incompetent homey and away we go. Fvck me.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Thought this was a good piece -

Strawman. I don't think anyone here claimed anything about racism, or that the reponse was slow because of the racial makeup of New Orleans. So 3/4 of that article is kinda irrelevant to this discussion. Of course, if I were to respond to it, I'd point out that the criticism isn't that Bush is racist, it's that the response ended up racist by default, and that's a broader systemic issue that needs some serious examination by anyone.

As a side note, I heard an interview on NPR yesterday with an evacuee. This was a young black woman who had made it to Austin with her family. 22 people in all, they all made it out before the hurricane. In the interview, she mentioned that they were from the 9th Ward. She pointed out that the 9th Ward was an area with a large number of black homeowners (I think she said something like the largest percentage in the country or something like that). In otherwords, mainly educated, middle class African Americans. And then she said, "So the media portraying nothing but poor blacks being affected is just not true." Umm, try again. You got out. Your 21 relatives got out. All of you are healthy. You had a self described caravan of vehicles to get out and even had to leave some of your cars behind. You know where all your family is, and they are all healthy. You will be receiving insurance money for your homes and contents. You can afford the hotel you're staying at in Austin. You did not spend days in a squalid stadium. You did not spend days outside the convention center with people dying before your eyes.

How many of those people were from the 9th Ward?

It was poor black people that were left in the worst conditions. It was not a conscious result, but it was the result.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by SacTown Chronic

Are you Bush apologists gonna care about the performance of the state and local goverments of Louisiana if an epic natural disaster (or terrorist attack) hits your state? Fvck no.

Hmm...dare I assume you are referring to me?

Actually, I do care about the performance of the state and local government in Louisiana. They screwed up before the disaster hit. Period. Incompetent. Does this mean that I think the feds - or Bush - has done a good job? No. Well, not at first. The first three-four days was a joke and incompetence reigned. Bush is at fault in that he appointed certain people like Brown. But, yes, I do care. The locals screwed up so badly that people died. So did the feds. Please point out where I said that I think Bush and the feds have done a good job. I'm just pointing out that if the locals had done their job, there wouldn't have been the opportunity for the post disaster screw ups. So we can rightly criticize the post disaster, but it is more important to examine the predisaster screwups that put the people in the position they were in.

So yes, I do care. And obviously my state government in AZ does, too. Why do I say that? Well, they are undergoing serious review of the AZ disaster plans. Now why would they do that? Because they realize that it is the responsibility of the local government to be prepared, not the responsibility of the feds to do it for them. I'm no Governor Napolitano fan here in AZ, but she is exactly right to take on a serious review of the procedures. I would like to think that perhaps my own local government isn't so inept so as to cause my community to be in such a situation. If I were, would I want the feds to do a better job in the first couple days? Damn right I would. And that needs to be corrected.

And who the hell cares who bin Laden is laughing at? I don't. Maybe some people laughed when the tsunami hit primarily Muslim countries, and they're a$$holes, too.

I do agree with you Sac, that Bush needs to answer why he hired someone as obviously incompetent as Brown. But if he gets the blame, as he should, then he gets credit for putting the general that is currently running things in New Orleans in charge there, and I read that he's doing one hell of a job.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Strawman. I don't think anyone here claimed anything about racism, or that the reponse was slow because of the racial makeup of New Orleans. So 3/4 of that article is kinda irrelevant to this discussion.

i completely disagree. The first couple paragraphs talk about racism charges, but most of the column deals with the incompetence of the local government currently, and going back into history a bit.

[SacTown Chronic]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Hmm...dare I assume you are referring to me?

Not really. There are literally millions of people who are trying to deflect blame away from the guy they voted for and pin it on those that don't even represent them.

I'm all for a postmortem to figure out what went wrong on all levels of government, but what I'm seeing is political CYA.

I'm just pointing out that if the locals had done their job, there wouldn't have been the opportunity for the post disaster screw ups.

Classic. See above.

I do agree with you Sac, that Bush needs to answer why he hired someone as obviously incompetent as Brown.

I'm curious as to how you would define 'answering for what he did'. Should he lose his job? His freedom?


If, in the final analysis, it turns out that the mayor of Nola failed because he appointed unqualified cronies to important public safety positions, he should be tried for criminal negligence and manslaughter.

If, in the final analysis, it turns out that the governor of LA failed because she appointed unqualified cronies to important public safety positions, she should be tried for criminal negligence and manslaughter.

If, in the final analysis, it turns out that the president, uh wait, we already know why FEMA failed.



What does America, and Congress, do about it? That's what I'm waiting to see.

[Cadaverous Pallor]

Of course I can't find it now but yesterday I read that people living in NO were twice as likely as the average American to be without a car.

Originally Posted by scaeagles' link

"Mayor Ray Nagin, local Red Cross Executive Director Kay Wilkins and City Council President Oliver Thomas drive home the word that the city does not have the resources to move out of harm's way an estimated 134,000 people without transportation."

"You're responsible for your safety, and you should be responsible for the person next to you," one official said of the message.

If that one bit from the article is true, then there is blame to be laid at the Mayor's office.

I fully believe that everyone fvcked this one up and I'm not going to join the crowd who want to pin it all on the feds.

[Not Afraid]

This has been another great example of people more concerned with placing the blame over finding a solution. One of my current pet peeves is just that.

[Kevy Baby]

Originally Posted by Not Afraid

This has been another great example of people more concerned with placing the blame over finding a solution. One of my current pet peeves is just that.

Thank you NA for the BEST post in this entire thread.

I haven't read most of this thread as it is just that: about placing blame. I am not surprised nor disappointed (in the individuals making them) with the mistakes made. We have absolutely no experience in dealing with a catastrophe of this magnitude. Yes, there have been some idiodic things said and done. Many individuals on ALL levels have made mistakes. But every day, people are doing the best they can to deal with an unfathomable event.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by SacTown Chronic

I'm curious as to how you would define 'answering for what he did'. Should he lose his job? His freedom?

....

What does America, and Congress, do about it? That's what I'm waiting to see.

Unfortunately, I don't think any political official can be tried on charges for any of this. Incompetence - or appointing incompetent people - isn't a crime. If so, 99% of politicians would be in prison. I mean answering for what he did in terms of someone asking him "Why did you appoint this loser to FEMA" and Bush explaining why. There is no political toll to pay, as he's in his second term.

What does American and Congress do about it? Well, i find it funny that the same officials who were screaming for the creation of the homeland security department and putting FEMA under the jurisdiction of it are now screaming to have it removed from the department of homeland security. So what does congress do? What they should do, I don't know. What they will do is reshuffle the existing bureaucracy and call the problem fixed. Appoint some commission to examine the problem to insulate themselves from political fallout should their ideas fail. Find the easiest person to assign blame to and move on. Lecture on pork barrell spending on things such as the transportation bill without changing their habits.

Americans? The usual - be outraged for a short period of time, figure it isn't their problem after a while, listen to feel good politicians who tell them the problem is fixed, and blindly move on with their lives until the next tragedy befalls with poor planning beforehand and horrid management afterwards. Then the cycle will repeat the next time.

Sad, but I'm fairly certain it's accurate.