Is there no good news in the world? There's precious little in this thread.

[Alex]

But that goes the other way. You support using tax dollars for the war but not so much for welfare and abortions.

We all tend to be hypocritical in this regard.

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

So in one breath you say, WB, that it immoral to use the tax dollars of those who oppose the war to support it and also that it is acceptable and even morally required (based on what I interpret your tone to be) to use the tax dollars of others to pay for welfare, housing, and medicare regardless of how they feel about those programs. It is not my intent to debate those programs now. I just find it interesting that tax dollars for what you support is OK, but not for what you don't support.

I, too, find your priorities most interesting. The people that are the most vocal against helping those at home are the most eager to shovel it out to the Pentagon and Halliburton, etc, whose excesses, waste and flat out ineptitude are the stuff of legend. (How is the body armor situation these days? The water purification that Halliburton was paid a fortune to do and didn't, exposing our troops to all sorts of horrid diseases from the wastewater they were drinking?) Meh. Tell me about how it feels to have some people abusing a system you pay into- pretty damned frustrating, isn't it? What really sucks is that it's the people in charge that are doing it.

[scaeagles]

Oh, without a doubt. I was going to post that should my tax dollars not be permitted to be used for things I don't support, not a lot of my tax dollars would be used.

The difference is that I don't use it for a reason as to why those programs should be stopped or curtailed.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

The difference is that I don't use it for a reason as to why those programs should be stopped or curtailed.

Of course that's your reason. I find it hard to believe that if there were an identical program to, say, HUD that was entirely privately funded that you'd object to it on some moral reason. Remove the tax dollars from it, and your objection disolves.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Of course that's your reason. I find it hard to believe that if there were an identical program to, say, HUD that was entirely privately funded that you'd object to it on some moral reason. Remove the tax dollars from it, and your objection disolves.

Insert abortion and that's not the case.

[Ghoulish Delight]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Insert abortion and that's not the case.

Of course it's not the case for every issue. But you didn't mention abortion in your list, did you. You, quite conveniently, mentioned nothing but programs that I'm pretty sure you'd have no objection to if they were privately funded, meaning your objection is the exact same as Wendybeth's, that your tax dollars are being used for something you don't think they should be used for.

[Alex]

While I'm not opposed to "welfare," "housing," "medicaire" and "HUD" as blanket entities but there are portions of each that I would oppose even if they were government run but privately- or self-funding due to their market distorting effects.

But then I'm irrelevant since I admit that I oppose many programs simply because it requires taking money from unwilling participants without sufficient justification. I'm mostly just talking so much today since I'm trying to stay awake but not enervated enough to do real work.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

Of course it's not the case for every issue. But you didn't mention abortion in your list, did you. You, quite conveniently, mentioned nothing but programs that I'm pretty sure you'd have no objection to if they were privately funded, meaning your objection is the exact same as Wendybeth's, that your tax dollars are being used for something you don't think they should be used for.

I must say I resent that implication, GD. I listed those because those are what was listed by WB. Sheesh.

[scaeagles]

OK - I can see a distinction between "can't" and "won't".

I recall when Michael Moore was being interviewed by Bill O'Reilly (I'm not a fan of either). Moore asked O'Reilly something to the effect of "Would you want you son or daughter to die fighting in Iraq?"

That's like asking if you've stopped beating your wife. I disagree with the premise. I wouldn't want my kid to die in any war, but that does not mean I would not be proud of my kid for doing his duty, praying for his safety, and nervous as hell every night.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

The reason why I feel the troops are deserving of support is because it was not their decision to specifically fight in Iraq. Once enlisted, they have very little choice in the matter. Most, more than likely, enlisted simply to protect our country. How could I not support someone who is willing to put their life on the line to protect our nation and its freedoms. I think their sacrifice is so admirable in fact, that I do not want them being sent to places to fight for reasons other than protecting our nation and its freedoms. In the case of Iraq, I don't believe they were sent to protect us and that is something that I cannot support. But I don't fault the soldiers for being there or for protecting themselves.

As far as wanting them to be victorious, I don't think there is going to be any real victory here. We are not going to stop terrorism. We are not going to turn Iraq into what we would consider a true democracy. We aren't going to win over the Iraqis in any definitive way. In fact, our staying there seems to be destabilizing the entire region. So if staying there is not going to achieve any worthwhile goals beyond what we already have done (removing Saddam), then, in my mind, the only way to support the troops is to call for their withdrawal. That is the only way to ensure their safety in this losing battle.

I think having the troops be home safe, even if it means them living with the fact that they didn't win an unwinnable war, is far more supportive of them than asking them to continue to get blown up on a daily basis with no end in sight, while trying to achieve something that more than likely isn't even possible.

That's about the best way I can put how I feel.