The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[Alex]

I don't think illegal immigrants will topple the United States. But that doesn't mean I don't think it is an issue to be addressed. A lot of people have been focusing on it for a very long time, I don't see their efforts as invalid just because it took a decade to get press attention.

If I use a flimsy lock on my garage and some teenager moves in there, at what point am I obligated to call him son?

And I too have driven across the United States many times. I suppose we could ship all of the illegal immigrants to Wyoming but what exactly would they do there? There's a reason they mostly end up in our big cities. Saying that they don't cause a crowding problem in LA because there is a lot of room in North Dakota isn't addressing the issue.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by Gemini Cricket

But what happens to these illegal workers once the work is gone for them? They go nowhere.

This is a situation that I am faced with regularly. I own my own business and over the last couple of years have seen many of my clients turn to China to get the work done that I used to do. I have contemplated closing down many times because the work that was once plentiful is now practically non-existant. And if that happens, I am on my own. It is my responsibility to come up with a back-up plan and if I don't, I'm screwed. Life isn't always fair.

I feel very bad for these poor people but if by fixing the system, they have to find another way to support themselves, then that is what they have to do. There are no easy solutions to any of this. All we can do is try to determine what is best for our country. And no matter how I try to wrap my brain around it, allowing 12 million people to overwhelm our social services, with no repercussions whatsoever for breaking the law is not the solution.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by Ghoulish Delight

I wonder, how would turning illegal immigration into a felony hold up to ex post facto scrutiny?

I don't know what ex post facto scrutiny is, but when I find out, I'll respond.

[scaeagles]

I don't think ex post facto is a problem here. If the crime was only crossing the border illegally, then you couldn't change that one act to a felony. They have already committed it, it is a misdemeanor, and it can't be changed to a felony. However, residing in the country illegally is ongoing. So while living here illegally yesterday may not have been a felony, there is no reason why living here illegally tomorrow can not be one regardless of when someone came in.

[Alex]

Oh, well I feel bad for their plight. I understand their life is hard and frequently unpleasant.

I also feel that way about the local homeless guy but I'm still going to kick him out of my garage (if I had one) if he tries to move in. I'm even going to kick him out if it turns out he's been living there for a while and it was all my fault for using a flimsy lock on the door.

[Not Afraid]

I'm really trying to put myself in the shoes of the immigrant but am having a difficult time with it because, a) my family immigrated a LONG time ago and b) my inlaws immigrated post WW2 from Deutscland when things were just a bit different. I wish I knew more about what my inlaws went through. I know there was a bit of flying by the seat of their pants and they went to Canada first before coming to the US. But, both became citizens and a part of the human economy.

The other illegals I have personally know are my Mexican BIL and a friend who is Irish and a chef for Patina trying to stay in the US on an expired green card. I don't begrudge either one of them for wanting to live here. But, both contribute to out economy in varying degrees. I guess that's what becomes the division for me - contribute or leave.

Anyways, I'm babbling about something I know very little about. blah blah blah.

[scaeagles]

Decrease it by the 37.5% and I bet they aren't as overwhelmed.

The legal aliens and citizens are breaking no laws by accessing those services. Those who are here illegally are breaking laws to access those services. Big difference.

If I am having dinner with my family of five and two uninvited people come in (an increase of 40%, so close to what you've posted), they may not be eating as much as my family as a whole, but it sure puts a drain on the food budget.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Decrease it by the 37.5% and I bet they aren't as overwhelmed.

The legal aliens and citizens are breaking no laws by accessing those services. Those who are here illegally are breaking laws to access those services. Big difference.

If I am having dinner with my family of five and two uninvited people come in (an increase of 40%, so close to what you've posted), they may not be eating as much as my family as a whole, but it sure puts a drain on the food budget.

No, it's more like you have 7 uninvited guests, but you only like 5 of them, so you blame running out of food on just the 2 you don't like and ignore the 5 you do.

[scaeagles]

Originally Posted by JWBear

No, it's more like you have 7 uninvited guests, but you only like 5 of them, so you blame running out of food on just the 2 you don't like and ignore the 5 you do.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read in my life. Seriously.

[Prudence]

Originally Posted by JWBear

No, it's more like you have 7 uninvited guests, but you only like 5 of them, so you blame running out of food on just the 2 you don't like and ignore the 5 you do.

If I have 7 uninvited guests it doesn't matter how many of them I like. They all have to get out because I'm not running a *&!!$^# restaurant.