The random political thoughts thread (Part Deux)

[wendybeth]

Originally Posted by Prudence

If I have 7 uninvited guests it doesn't matter how many of them I like. They all have to get out because I'm not running a *&!!$^# restaurant.

You must spread some Mojo around before giving it to Prudence again.

[scaeagles]

Not blaming illegals for all of society's woes does not change the fact that illegals due contribute to the woes of our society when in fact they should not be a part of our society.

[JWBear]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

Not blaming illegals for all of society's woes does not change the fact that illegals due contribute to the woes of our society when in fact they should not be a part of our society.

My point, which everyone either doesn't get, or chooses to ignore, is that people are demonizing illegal aliens, making them scapegoats for all of society's problems. Illegals are not to blame for all of our problems. Things are never that simplistic.

Honestly, I don't think I can go on debating this subject. Whenever I do, I get so angry and frustrated. People are making monsters out of these people. What's next? Concentration camps? History has told us that the next step after de-humanizing a people is genocide.

I just can't understand the hate, veiled and blatant, that I see in society right now; hate directed towards illegal aliens, legal aliens, and Hispanics alike. These are human beings we're talking about!

[Motorboat Cruiser]

Originally Posted by JWBear

Honestly, I don't think I can go on debating this subject. Whenever I do, I get so angry and frustrated. People are making monsters out of these people. What's next? Concentration camps? History has told us that the next step after de-humanizing a people is genocide.

I just can't understand the hate, veiled and blatant, that I see in society right now; hate directed towards illegal aliens, legal aliens, and Hispanics alike. These are human beings we're talking about!

Who here has ever said that illegals are monsters or that they can't sympathize with their plight. I fear you are reading far more into what people are saying than what they are actually saying.

What hate has been expressed towards anyone here? Seriously. Nor has there been one criticism of legal immigrants, regardless of which country they are from.

You are trying to stereotype anyone with immigrations concerns as a racist and a supporter of concentration camps and genocide. At that point, I can't take your arguments seriously and that saddens me.

[Alex]

Where is the hate towards legal aliens and hispanics in general?

You offer only two reasons people don't get your point. Either we're too simple-minded to get it or we're willfully ignoring it. Perhaps you just aren't very successful at making your points? You're seven uninvited guests example, for example, wasn't very good.

The correct analogy would be you planned a dinner for five invited guests. Two uninvited people showed up and insisted on eating with us. Yes, I'm going to blame those two uninvited people if there isn't enough food to go around. I'm also going to blame you for not insisting that they leave the table. That isn't hate. That also isn't racism.

I don't hate illegal immigrants. I also don't hold them responsible for all of societies ills. But that doesn't mean that they don't contribute in part or in entirety to some of societies ills. And even if they contributed not at all to any problems and lived quietly in quaint little enclaves where they made attractive shoes and invited me to all of their birthday parties, I would still be opposed to illegal immigration.

[scaeagles]

I bet you meant me. You hate me, don't you? You think I'm right wing scum.

[Gemini Cricket]

Originally Posted by scaeagles

I bet you meant me. You hate me, don't you? You think I'm right wing scum.

No, I barely think about you at all.

I'm joking. I don't think you're scum and I don't hate anyone. You know that. Although, I think I hate that girl that won that lifetime pass to all the Disney parks...

I didn't mean anyone was being insensitive. I was feeling like people don't think about how crappy it would be to be working hard in those fields and then to come home and hear that people want to classify you as a felon.

Once I took a shuttle from Monterey to San Francisco. The shuttle was filled with people. This lady next to me looked out into a field filled with workers from the shuttle window and said to her husband, 'Oh look at that. Just like a Steinbeck book. People working the fields. How romantic.' I just about crapped myself. I thought, 'Romantic? Lady, do you have any idea what it's like doing what they're doing?' I of course bit my tongue. How I wished I could have grabbed that Filet-o-Fish out of her hands and pushed her into an artichoke field and made her pick veggies for a day.

[Motorboat Cruiser]

I appreciate the clarification, GC.

To add some more fuel to the debate fire, I came across this...

Camarota, Steven A. 2004. "The High Cost of Cheap Labor: Illegal Immigration and the Federal Budget." Washington, DC: Center for Immigration Studies. URL: http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscal.pdf

Background: Study is designed to assess the economic impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget.

Data Source: The Census Bureau for the year 2002.

Findings: The federal government provided $26.3 billion in federal services to households headed by undocumented immigrants ("illegal aliens") in 2002, but only collected $16 billion in taxes from undocumented households. The most utilized services include: "Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion)" (pg. 5). Undocumented immigrants impact the federal budget due to their low education levels and low incomes (not their excessive use of federal services) and the costs associated with their U.S. born children (who are eligible to enroll in federal programs).

[scaeagles]

Actually, if you reread this thread, you'll see that people who hire illegals, the corrupt Mexican government, and our own government for a lack of border control, are at the top of the list with the illegals themselves coming in after that.

It isn't an issue of hate. I don't get why you don't see that.

[BarTopDancer]

From Dictionary.com

Illegal
1. Prohibited by law.
2. Prohibited by official rules: an illegal pass in football.
3. Unacceptable to or not performable by a computer: an illegal operation.
n.
An illegal immigrant.

True - There is a large population of people in SoCal, AZ and TX who are here illegally from Mexico.
True - There is a large population of people in NY who are here illegally from S.E. Asian countries.

If being anti-illegal aliens makes someone racist against Mexicans then it also makes them racist against Asians.

But my original question was never answered: Are all the Mexicans who are against illegal immigration from Mexico racist? So now Mexicans are racist against Mexicans?